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<blockquote data-quote="DracoSuave" data-source="post: 5366939" data-attributes="member: 71571">&quot;A basic attack with a weapon&quot; does not imply anything about implement powers that can be used as a basic attack.&nbsp; It implies merely that you must be using a weapon.&nbsp; A staff is a weapon, and an implement attack with a staff is using a basic attack with a weapon.On top of that:&nbsp; Weapon Finesse says 'A melee basic attack' and all the rogue powers except Backstab state 'basic attack' or 'melee basic attack.'&nbsp; No power in the thief section states said attack must be a weapon power or weapon attack.'Attack with a weapon' is not the same thing as 'a weapon attack' or 'a weapon power.'&nbsp; The first simply requires the accessory qualify as a weapon, and the latter two actually invoke the keywords of the power.&nbsp; It's a moot point.&nbsp; Backstab requires an attack roll as a trigger, and the tricks either require a damage roll, or buff an attack roll, or require a melee basic attack.&nbsp; Magic Missile does none of these.Now, if you were a half-elf using Eldritch Strike, rogue tricks and backstab would work fine.&nbsp; Beast form druids are SOL, as the thief powers can't be used.There's not a lot of powers that count as melee basic attacks.They'd never make attack or damage rolls either, and that rules out the vast majority of anything the thief could do about the situation.Also, Sneak Attack has never worked with powers that do not make attack rolls.&nbsp; Otherwise you'd have seen Paladin/Rogues.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DracoSuave, post: 5366939, member: 71571"] "A basic attack with a weapon" does not imply anything about implement powers that can be used as a basic attack. It implies merely that you must be using a weapon. A staff is a weapon, and an implement attack with a staff is using a basic attack with a weapon. On top of that: Weapon Finesse says 'A melee basic attack' and all the rogue powers except Backstab state 'basic attack' or 'melee basic attack.' No power in the thief section states said attack must be a weapon power or weapon attack. 'Attack with a weapon' is not the same thing as 'a weapon attack' or 'a weapon power.' The first simply requires the accessory qualify as a weapon, and the latter two actually invoke the keywords of the power. It's a moot point. Backstab requires an attack roll as a trigger, and the tricks either require a damage roll, or buff an attack roll, or require a melee basic attack. Magic Missile does none of these. Now, if you were a half-elf using Eldritch Strike, rogue tricks and backstab would work fine. Beast form druids are SOL, as the thief powers can't be used. There's not a lot of powers that count as melee basic attacks. They'd never make attack or damage rolls either, and that rules out the vast majority of anything the thief could do about the situation. Also, Sneak Attack has never worked with powers that do not make attack rolls. Otherwise you'd have seen Paladin/Rogues. [/QUOTE]

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