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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 4742074" data-attributes="member: 61155">Those restrictions are actually the only thing keeping the hybrid classes from being overbalanced. The thing to understand is that the goal, here, isn't to produce a class that can fill two roles at the exact same time. You don't want that, after all! If a character is able to be a perfect defender while unleashing full striker damage, why should you bother with a standard defender or standard striker?The goal instead is to have a character that can fill either role perfectly well at any given time, but not both at once. So, the Fighter/Ranger can spend one round using his fighter powers, and marking opponents, and keeping them from attacking his allies. Then, the next round, it looks like his allies are in a safe spot - so he instead uses his ranger powers and does striker damage to take them down fast.And what you especially don't want is for striker classes to compile their damage. If there was no restriction on Sneak Attack and Hunter's Quarry, and you could simply stack them? That is really, really overpowered. The handful of minor abilities you lose out on in order to get this doesn't compare to how much higher damage you deal compared to a standard Rogue or standard Ranger. Sure, you need to both quarry an enemy and get combat advantage. But that is not difficult at all. The system is designed for rogues to have combat advantage nearly all the time, as long as they are attempting to do so - and even ranged rogues have quite a few ways to do so. In fact, the one primary balance problem I've noticed with these rules is that you can get in 3-4 rounds of super-striker damage, by focusing on encounter powers that give attacks that are minor actions or immediate actions.That's a good chunk of the fight to have that level of inflated damage. I don't think it is gamebreaking levels of damage, but it does seem the one large area of abuse for these rules.Aside from that, I am very impressed at their elegance. The limitation on class features only working with class powers does go a long way towards making sure you only fill one role at a time. The big issue just seems to be making sure the right features are chosen for each class - someone pointed out that the hybrid Warlord currently seems a bit too strong, since of his three class features, it gives him one for full (Combat Leader), he can get another for full via Hybrid Talent (Commanding Presence), and it gives him Inspiring Word at one less use per encounter - which, if he Hybrids cleric, he makes up by gaining Healing word once per encounter. Thus, the Cleric/Warlord Hybrid is just like a standard Warlord, except he can pick between Cleric and Warlord powers and has Healer's Lore, in return for losing a feat (on Hybrid Talent), and Light Shield Proficiency. And lower hitpoints, admittedly, which is significant - but still seems a pretty low cost for what he gets. I'm concerned that similar set-ups (where you get something for very little loss) will only be more likely as they add more hybrid class options with other classes as well. As long as they choose what each gets very cautiously, this system seems mostly workable, but it will require some very careful design.I don't think these builds are underpowered. They have the potential to be, certain, like any build does, but I think every combination gets interesting options and abilities that will make up for what they are missing out on.</blockquote>

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