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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1591980" data-attributes="member: 5777">Point in fact, he said no such thing. He was merely spaming to no purpose.In addition, I made sure to say my perspective was coming from gaming experience, which I know some people dont really care about. Hence why I put it forward first.Which is exactly what I said, so why your comments against it? I said that for my party it would be exactly a CR 4. If we had met it at level 3 then it would have probably slaughtered us, and at level 5 we would have barely noticed.So we said the exact same thing, in pretty much the exact same way, and yet my example is bad and yours is fine?Actually, the character in question is standard array with some slight modifications. Effectively making it around 28-30 point buy. And he only has one piece of magical equipment, it increases his speed. (total gear value < 3k)As for 'not breaking a sweat' I would have to say my line about him probably dieing certainly doesnt qualify. But, I made the example useing our best brute, and with minimal help from the party. Seems like a valid way to go to me.Although I had overlooked the fast healing aspect. But then, I also neglected the other party members doing anything besides standing there and watching, so that should be fine as well. Umm.. yeah.. those are a bit beyond 'rudimentary' tactics, but still. The hydras have some nice abilities no doubt. But then, I simply rushed the melee brute in with no thought either. So, with neither useing any form of tactics the hydra is going to be hurting a lot. If one uses some form of tactics (and one would assume that having an int of 2 would make it so that the party could come up with better tactics) then they should both be able to.Grunt vs grunt, no tactics, for some parties it is a cake walk at level 4, others would have some serious issues (tpk even possible).Party vs monster, tactics both sides, the same as above applies. Cake walk for some, tpk for others.Where the balance point is at depends on the campaign and the group. But, like I have said twice now, for my group it definately feels like CR 4 when it uses its aoo's with all of its heads . That is all I said earlier, that is all I am saying now.So dcollins can have his snide, and useless, remarks if he likes. They serve no purpose and should not be placed in any thread.The rules aspect seems confused (as hypersmurf has even said) at that point that is what playtesting is for, to see what is balanced enough to use in a given campaign. Hey, look at that, I said what would be balanced in the one I am in.So, again, it looks like a valid CR 4 for the game I am in, if the aoo's are used in sort of a bulk attack. That seems to be its main feature for offense. It is only a melee brute and nothing else after all.</blockquote>

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