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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 9119407" data-attributes="member: 18">Well, it was both.With 4E, the HP bloat introduced by [unnamed WotC exec] at the last minute who just blanket-added 20% to all monster HP absolutely did add nearly an extra round to combat.But once that got fixed, with the improved monster math (which you could auto-calc with the DDI, note!), that was no longer an issue, and things ran really well and decision points became the main thing. 4E genuinely did have far more decision-points for non-casters. Wildly more. This, in my experience, made players vastly more engaged, including ones who normally glazed over in combat in 2E/3E (and who do again in 5E).Unfortunately the decision points got out of control in the Paragon tier (i.e. 11+) because you got more and more of your abilities being Reactions, Interrupts, Immediate Actions and so on, which meant you basically had decision points continually, not just on your turns, but on other people's turns, monster's turns, and so on. And lots of them too, potentially - many were very strong abilities tactically as well, unfortunately. Didn't help that the monsters got the same, so the DM was also doing it!And that did cause absolute bloat. It derailed us playing 4E, despite us otherwise loving 4E.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 9119407, member: 18"] Well, it was both. With 4E, the HP bloat introduced by [unnamed WotC exec] at the last minute who just blanket-added 20% to all monster HP absolutely did add nearly an extra round to combat. But once that got fixed, with the improved monster math (which you could auto-calc with the DDI, note!), that was no longer an issue, and things ran really well and decision points became the main thing. 4E genuinely did have far more decision-points for non-casters. Wildly more. This, in my experience, made players vastly more engaged, including ones who normally glazed over in combat in 2E/3E (and who do again in 5E). Unfortunately the decision points got out of control in the Paragon tier (i.e. 11+) because you got more and more of your abilities being Reactions, Interrupts, Immediate Actions and so on, which meant you basically had decision points continually, not just on your turns, but on other people's turns, monster's turns, and so on. And lots of them too, potentially - many were very strong abilities tactically as well, unfortunately. Didn't help that the monsters got the same, so the DM was also doing it! And that did cause absolute bloat. It derailed us playing 4E, despite us otherwise loving 4E. [/QUOTE]

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