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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3801988" data-attributes="member: 4937">Huh?  You don't think that there were priests of a single diety?  You don't think that they were ascribed supernatural powers?  I agree only to the extent that if we are trying to capture an ancient feel (and that is a big if), there should be mechanics for the impact of religious observance by non-clerical classes.  Then how much or how little religion should impact your campaign would be up to you, to tweak or ignore or emphasize, and not up to the mechanics or any single class.We already have the 'fighter with divine favor' concept in the Paladin (which is IMO better referred to as the Champion class since the Paladin is somewhat specifically Christian in concept).  I'm fairly sure that the priests of Ares (for instance) fought, but I'm equally sure that they weren't considered warriors first and foremost.  And the priesthood of Athena - who is equally a war goddess - would certainly not have been warriors first and foremost.Well, yes and no.  Again, compare the cleric with the Holy Warrior class from 'Book of the Righteous' and I think you'll see that while that is true, the 'Champion' archetype still covers ground that would be difficult to cover with multiclassing alone.   This is true also of the 'gish' (swordmage, bard, however we choose to implement it).If this is the flavor you prefer, it is easy to create it.  Simply rule that X diety doesn't have clerics, and that his temples are staffed primarily with class X (whatever class X that you think is appropriate).Not my favored choice, but for a flavorful implementation of this see 'The Book of the Righteous'.  Are you sure?  Because while the idea of a omnipotent monotheist God need help from mortal agents to keep the world working doesn't make much sense, it is not at all clear to me that that necessarily is the case in a cosmology where the mightiest beings are mortals writ large with various foibles, limits to thier power, and where worship is more like bargaining than supplication.To be fully frank, I see that not as failure of the class, but a failure of imagination and learning on the part of the DM.  It takes work to make religion relative to an invented world, and most published gaming source material just doesn't help ease that burden.  If you aren't yourself religious, or a student of religions, or a serious historian, I'd be terribly surprised if a society where unique philosophy, beliefs, and rituals played a great role simple sprung out of your head.  And unfortunately, game designers seem rarely to fall into one of those three classes, and even more rarely manage to convince a company to publish a book of religious fluff when they are.  Again, to hammer the point home, read 'The Book of the Righteous' if you don't think that the current system can be made to work.Incidently, the same would be true of most anything.  Seriously making ecology part of your world is hard unless you've studied it somewhat.  Seriously making sailing vessels part of your world is hard unless you've studied them.  Designing realistic and interesting cave systems is hard unless you've either studied them or better yet grubbed around in them for a few hours.  It's not intended to be a knock on anyone; I'm just saying that if you don't really grok the material don't blame the game system for your shallow fluff.</blockquote>

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