Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="evilbob" data-source="post: 9649685" data-attributes="member: 9789">I wonder if there's not any "targeting" rule because "being hidden (Invisible)" is functionally separate from "being aware" of something. Once you are "aware" of something, it is always possible to know its location for targeting purposes; this is separate from "being Invisible" which causes it to be hard to hit.In that case, "unaware" is almost like a separate condition, similar to the Pathfinder rules someone shared in another thread. I suppose this would be something that continued until an enemy had line of sight to you, or their Passive Perception beat your Stealth check, or you revealed yourself in some other way. But that makes hiding much less useful, since you can always be targeted once you've been detected at least once. You'd really want a way to become "unaware" to the enemy, so they cannot even target you.Edit: Oh - I think there may already be a distinction, and it's the pseudo-condition "hidden." So basically you can be Invisible, but that is separate from being Hidden, which I'm now going to capitalize. Invisible gives disadvantage to being hit (etc.), but being Hidden means you cannot be targeted.This actually could work: that way hiding while Invisible IS important, and hiding means you cannot be targeted - but if you are Invisible but NOT Hidden, you can be targeted normally. Effectively Hidden would be a condition that could be defined as: "Your location is unknown to others while you are Hidden," and the Hide action would grant Invisibility and Hidden.Regarding hiding, I think one key phrase that is doing a lot of lifting (and causing a lot of heartache) is "until the enemy finds you" in the Hide action description. We know that the Search action can find someone, but I don't think that's exclusive: if an enemy moves into your space, it seems like they would also find you. The trick is if you consider "the enemy has line of sight" to you to also fall under this category - and since there's no specific rule, that's why we have 300 page threads about it. 4.0 specified that you needed at least some amount of cover to remain hidden (but specifically line of sight was ok if you had at least some cover), and that an enemy moving into your space finds you. It also kept the "you are Invisible until the end of the action that makes you no longer Invisible, even if you are no longer hidden during that action" which allowed the "sneak up and hit" idea. My personal opinion is that this is what 5.5 rules are trying to do, but instead of spelling out explicitly what counts as "finding you" they are letting the DM decide.</blockquote>

Verification