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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 3879984" data-attributes="member: 5143">But this isn't the balance they are going for.&nbsp; It isn't a balance of the classes fighting one another, it is a balance of the characters having equal value in a standard adventure.The better way to put it is that if you were forced to go into a dungeon solo and get to the end of the dungeon and get the artifact at the end and get out, how well would you do?Right now, the wizard probably has a good 5 or 10 tricks up his sleeve to not only kill nearly every monster in the dungeon, but avoid all the traps, get over any terrain or obstacle, but be able to avoid them all if necessary.&nbsp; He can scry and teleport to the end.&nbsp; He can turn invisible and walk past all the enemies.&nbsp; He can fly over pits and fireball entire rooms worth of enemies.The fighter on the other hand will likely die by himself in this situation.So, the balance needs to be brought more inline.&nbsp; Fighters need to be given non-combat powers(which they said they were getting) and the wizard's powers need to be brought in line closer with what the fighter ones do.If the fighter gets the power to jump 30 feet with a running start as a power, then the wizards should get no more than a one round flying power at that level.Unfortunately, wizards completely overblown power level has been justified in the past by simply saying &quot;They wield magic...and magic can do ANYTHING.&nbsp; Fighters don't have magic so they can't do ANYTHING out of the ordinary.&nbsp; So, fighters will always be weaker.&quot;But fighter types in novels and movies always find a way to do things that are near magical even when in a non-fantasy world.&nbsp; And wizards and magic types always seem to have extreme limitations on their powers preventing them from being used when they are needed most, thus forcing the hero to find a way.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 3879984, member: 5143"] But this isn't the balance they are going for. It isn't a balance of the classes fighting one another, it is a balance of the characters having equal value in a standard adventure. The better way to put it is that if you were forced to go into a dungeon solo and get to the end of the dungeon and get the artifact at the end and get out, how well would you do? Right now, the wizard probably has a good 5 or 10 tricks up his sleeve to not only kill nearly every monster in the dungeon, but avoid all the traps, get over any terrain or obstacle, but be able to avoid them all if necessary. He can scry and teleport to the end. He can turn invisible and walk past all the enemies. He can fly over pits and fireball entire rooms worth of enemies. The fighter on the other hand will likely die by himself in this situation. So, the balance needs to be brought more inline. Fighters need to be given non-combat powers(which they said they were getting) and the wizard's powers need to be brought in line closer with what the fighter ones do. If the fighter gets the power to jump 30 feet with a running start as a power, then the wizards should get no more than a one round flying power at that level. Unfortunately, wizards completely overblown power level has been justified in the past by simply saying "They wield magic...and magic can do ANYTHING. Fighters don't have magic so they can't do ANYTHING out of the ordinary. So, fighters will always be weaker." But fighter types in novels and movies always find a way to do things that are near magical even when in a non-fantasy world. And wizards and magic types always seem to have extreme limitations on their powers preventing them from being used when they are needed most, thus forcing the hero to find a way. [/QUOTE]

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