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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dave Turner" data-source="post: 3880027" data-attributes="member: 12329">I see where you're coming from, Henry.  There are some powers in the Bo9S (I'm thinking of the fiery ones) that give swordsages some overtly magical abilities with regards to slinging fire.  In the past, it's only magic-wielders who have been able to do such unnatural things. That's arguably a nerf to wizard flavor, but that should be a secondary concern next to the mechanics.  There are also attacks in the Bo9S that add 100 damage to a fighter's attack.  There's no mention of magical effects.  It's simply described as a perfect, devastating blow.  It's elevating (buffing) the physical warriors to the same mechanical level as the magic-wielders, while allowing the magic-wielders to keep the same mechanical advantage.Now all classes can deliver 100+ damage with a single action, but with different flavor.  The gloss over the wizards is that they bend reality with their minds and do "unnatural" things like shooting fire from their fingers when they do 100 damage.  The fighters' gloss is that they're supremely-gifted warriors whose preternatural skill allows them to deliver elegant blows which no common man could ever attempt.  What WarlockLord doesn't make clear is whether he's upset because fighters can now do 100+ damage with single blow or whether it's the gloss on the ability (the extra damage comes from fire that bursts from the fighter's body, rather than a perfect blow of a sword) that's seen as a wizard nerf.  Hell, if I was a fighter with the "+100 damage to an attack" ability, I'd do far more than describe it as a single sword swing.  If it succeeds, that attack is going to kill many opponents straight-out.  It represents complete domination of an opponent by the fighter.  Assuming I'm fighting a humanoid, I would describe a brief exchange of blows in which my fighter disarmed, hamstrung, and finally decapitated his opponent, all in a span of a few seconds!  A +100 damage attack would be a chance to show off in a big way!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />If WarlockLord is worried about the gloss or flavor of the 4E martial abilities, then he should just change the gloss!  It's like complaining about Emerald Frost.  Don't like it? Change the name.  If you don't think that martial characters should be able to produce a fire-blast to accompany their sword swings, then just call the extra damage from the fire-blast something else (like a "perfect, devastating blow").  We don't know if the martial class powers will be overtly magical like the fiery ones from Bo9S.  I hope they aren't in the core books.  There are plenty of non-magical rationales to apply as a gloss over the mechanics that apply to martial classes.  If WarlockLord is getting worried because he's incapable of changing the gloss on the mechanics, then I'm not sure that there's much to be done for him.  Some gamers just understand how to change gloss and others can't grasp that.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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