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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 6733209" data-attributes="member: 6790260">It is possible to have a class called "Warlord" which lacks that mechanic, yes. Is it possible for that class to actually work, to make for a playable game? *That* I am not convinced of--and, in fact, am pretty anti-convinced, based on my experience of playing 5e. If you don't have actual healing, you cannot adventure prior to level 3. It's flat-out impossible, unless you're okay with taking 1d4 hours' break *at least* every other combat, and typically after every combat.Except that, as others have stated numerous times at least elsewhere, you cannot regain HP via Hit Dice if you are unconscious (because you can't take a short rest while unconscious, IIRC?). I have seen literally every single person in my 5e group knocked to 0 HP during combat (except myself), multiple times, and we've only had three sessions. We're not talking (all) crazy-tough combats either; we're talking "four zombies" or "a gaggle of zombie-hands." If we had to wait 1d4 (or, several times, highest 1 of 2d4 or even 3d4) hours after every combat, the game would move at an unplayable pace. As it is, we have literally no characters who can't (theoretically) heal (Ranger, Druid, Paladin, Cleric, and my Bard), so the meat-grinder hasn't been too much of a problem...but we still lose people constantly.One: You keep using that argument, "a lot of people," with literally no data to back it up. You might want to stop doing that. The only people who might know whether "a lot" don't want it are WotC, and at least during the playtest, they didn't care if a lot of people didn't want it. I can get you Mearls' tweet on the subject, if you're interested.Two: It is not "at the expense of other options." Literally every single person I have seen speak even remotely positively about the Warlord wants some healing, and some mitigation--which would cover all the other mechanics you've described. The only data on that particular subject that even remotely resembles what you're talking about is the "How much healing, how much mitigation" poll--and only one person has voted for 100% healing. Admittedly, the poll isn't real great--even by forum standards--because only 23 people have voted...but it still casts a pretty significant shadow over your argument as it applies to people on this temporary subforum. Where are you getting the idea that this must be "at the expense of" other options?I don't see why I should care about that. I really don't.No.False, false, and false. You don't have to know any of that. I fully expected this argument to pop up. You don't need to be this hyper-omniscient deity of 5e combats. You don't need some farcically great understanding of the options in the game. That's utterly ridiculous. All you need is to have a product in front of you, look at whether it does or doesn't include a thing you don't like, and then decide what to do about it. Just like you would have to do with the official Warlord class.It's literally not different. Trying to make it out like you need to be the Transcendent One to deal with a few possible things--in books you may never even own, adventures you may never even run--is reaching of the worst kind.It's pretty difficult to break 5% when there are <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130411190802/http://community.wizards.com/dndnext/blog/2012/02/29/favorite_class" target="_blank">17 options </a>(one of which is "Not sure"). When the four most popular options (Wizard, Rogue, Fighter, Ranger) account for 42% of the vote all by themselves, it's pretty much impossible. By your standard, then, we should not have the following classes: Barbarian (2%), Druid (4%, fewer votes than Warlord), Monk (4%, more votes than Warlord), Psion/psionicist (4%, more votes than Warlord), Sorcerer (4%, more votes than Warlord), or Warlock (3%). Yet all but one of these classes appeared in the PHB--and three of them were less popular than the Warlord.The "argumentum ad populum" just doesn't hold up, from the minimal official data we have available to us. This is part of why I have argued, here and elsewhere, that the Warlord fell between the cracks of iterative design: its bits were made under assumptions valid during the early design drafts, and a slow process of change eliminated those assumptions one by one until the final document no longer really achieved the aims they originally set out for--but because they only realized this in the final six-eight months of the playtest, they simply didn't have time to fix it. Their silence on the matter, IMO, reflects their desire to do something, but their unwillingness to get people "hyped" about it and risk disappointing them later. Just like how they've kept extremely quiet about any new book releases until shortly (4-5 months at most) before they come out. It's all part of their new release strategy: say nothing, hint at nothing, imply nothing, until you have an actual book--and don't make books more often than once every 6 months or so at most.Note: the poll page was eliminated by the forum software change at WotC, so the link is to the Internet Archive. It takes a little while to load, so give it a minute or so.And yet 13th Age is far more like 4e than 5e ever was. It's still a different game, and I really strongly dislike some parts of it from reading them (I *still* cannot understand how the "range bands" thing works when fighting groups!), but it learned more from the good things in 4e than 5e did, hands-down. And y'know what was added with the very first "new player content" book for 13A...?Well, you already got the first thing. Not sure why the second thing is such a big deal?LOLwhut??Are you serious? No, that's not at all what happened. The bigger question is, would you believe me if I told you the actual reason? Or would you continue this ridiculous line of defamation (I would say "ad hominem" but "Warlord" is a concept, not a person) when this precise situation, and what caused it, has already been described in numerous Warlord threads before, on this very site?</blockquote>

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