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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6735927" data-attributes="member: 996">There are some examples of that, sure.&nbsp; But even if every Paragon and Epic Tier power in the entire game had been just an upgrade, and you thus cut the numbers by 2/3rds, you're still talking 142 -&gt; 17 for Weaponmaster -&gt; Battlemaster, vs 146 -&gt; 215 for the Wizard.&nbsp; 88% loss vs 47% gain.To be clear, you're talking about a ridiculously optimized high-Epic (~30th?) level character.&nbsp;&nbsp; That's a very hypothetical Warlord.&nbsp; ;P&nbsp; Sure, 3.5 'Tier 1's were notoriously OP.&nbsp; 4e was notorious for being more tightly-balanced than other editions.&nbsp; The Warlord was integrated into that tight balance.&nbsp; CharOp would go crazy with some real or imagined loophole, and it'd be closed in the next <s>errata</s> &quot;update&quot; - until they stopped updating so much with Essentials, and a few were left open.5e just isn't balanced the same way 4e was, though.&nbsp; It's not a neat, numeric, balance, but a DM-arbitrated sort of 'spotlight' balance.&nbsp; Sometimes the DM creates a situation where a caster who has the right spell prepared and chooses to use a slot to cast it, will really shine (and any caster in the party might step into that spotlight).&nbsp; Other times he creates a situation where a melee type dishing out massive DPR will really shine (and the fighters, barbarians, paladins &amp;c get their chance).&nbsp; Still others, he'll create situations where a character able to get an ally back in the fight, and boost his offense at a critical moment will shine (and the Bard, Cleric, Druid or Warlord step up).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6735927, member: 996"] There are some examples of that, sure. But even if every Paragon and Epic Tier power in the entire game had been just an upgrade, and you thus cut the numbers by 2/3rds, you're still talking 142 -> 17 for Weaponmaster -> Battlemaster, vs 146 -> 215 for the Wizard. 88% loss vs 47% gain. To be clear, you're talking about a ridiculously optimized high-Epic (~30th?) level character. That's a very hypothetical Warlord. ;P Sure, 3.5 'Tier 1's were notoriously OP. 4e was notorious for being more tightly-balanced than other editions. The Warlord was integrated into that tight balance. CharOp would go crazy with some real or imagined loophole, and it'd be closed in the next [s]errata[/s] "update" - until they stopped updating so much with Essentials, and a few were left open. 5e just isn't balanced the same way 4e was, though. It's not a neat, numeric, balance, but a DM-arbitrated sort of 'spotlight' balance. Sometimes the DM creates a situation where a caster who has the right spell prepared and chooses to use a slot to cast it, will really shine (and any caster in the party might step into that spotlight). Other times he creates a situation where a melee type dishing out massive DPR will really shine (and the fighters, barbarians, paladins &c get their chance). Still others, he'll create situations where a character able to get an ally back in the fight, and boost his offense at a critical moment will shine (and the Bard, Cleric, Druid or Warlord step up). [/QUOTE]

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