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I don't get high-level D&D (merged)
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<blockquote data-quote="jasamcarl" data-source="post: 1292543" data-attributes="member: 1251"><p>I'm sorry, I didn't think i needed to clarify that i was speaking from my experience. I suppose gave you a bit too much credit thinking you were mature enough not to need contrary opinions butressed with 'but its only my opinion'; of course it is. That being said, you really haven't countered any of points, and in fact, am making me think that you didn't really understand them in the first place. Citing the existence of old modules isn't really evidence, because many modules are simply railroad aides for lazy, hyper-story driven dms; there is no validation. I'm so disgusted by the other B) reply that i simply won't comment.</p><p></p><p>The issue with low-level event-based plots isn't one of power-mad dms (though its much easier to manipulate players at those levels without resulting to the type of contrivances that mitigate the consistency this type of anal dm goes for in the first place). Its the fact that any such grand event or mystery almost always neccessitates heavy dm adjudication. Many players, probably yours included, might be fine with that, focusing more on the totally of the story rather than their (the players) actual role in determining the outcome.</p><p></p><p>The key to high-level play, however, is that it doesn't require as much dm intervention and calls as low-level, both because the crunch heavily implies 'events' that only a dm could call at low levels (the opening of a 'Gate' as an off the cuff example) and because the players have more control over vital descisions such as setting. The DM starts to react as much of the player. The reason this is preferable to players who like control over the 'Choose Your Own adventure" setup of the most lenient low-level DMs is because true creativity comes from working within rules and coming up with something neither ever expected. At high-levels, both DM and player can be surprised by what happens in the end. For lack of a less pretentious word, its a dialectic.</p><p></p><p>This has nothing to do with a 'Dm vs. Player' argument, though I have a feeling I would hate you as a DM. The cliched High Magic/Fantasy = Immature line has me thinking you are not as well read or imaginative as you think you are if you can't see the creativity possible in these genre conventions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jasamcarl, post: 1292543, member: 1251"] I'm sorry, I didn't think i needed to clarify that i was speaking from my experience. I suppose gave you a bit too much credit thinking you were mature enough not to need contrary opinions butressed with 'but its only my opinion'; of course it is. That being said, you really haven't countered any of points, and in fact, am making me think that you didn't really understand them in the first place. Citing the existence of old modules isn't really evidence, because many modules are simply railroad aides for lazy, hyper-story driven dms; there is no validation. I'm so disgusted by the other B) reply that i simply won't comment. The issue with low-level event-based plots isn't one of power-mad dms (though its much easier to manipulate players at those levels without resulting to the type of contrivances that mitigate the consistency this type of anal dm goes for in the first place). Its the fact that any such grand event or mystery almost always neccessitates heavy dm adjudication. Many players, probably yours included, might be fine with that, focusing more on the totally of the story rather than their (the players) actual role in determining the outcome. The key to high-level play, however, is that it doesn't require as much dm intervention and calls as low-level, both because the crunch heavily implies 'events' that only a dm could call at low levels (the opening of a 'Gate' as an off the cuff example) and because the players have more control over vital descisions such as setting. The DM starts to react as much of the player. The reason this is preferable to players who like control over the 'Choose Your Own adventure" setup of the most lenient low-level DMs is because true creativity comes from working within rules and coming up with something neither ever expected. At high-levels, both DM and player can be surprised by what happens in the end. For lack of a less pretentious word, its a dialectic. This has nothing to do with a 'Dm vs. Player' argument, though I have a feeling I would hate you as a DM. The cliched High Magic/Fantasy = Immature line has me thinking you are not as well read or imaginative as you think you are if you can't see the creativity possible in these genre conventions. [/QUOTE]
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I don't get high-level D&D (merged)
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