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<blockquote data-quote="moritheil" data-source="post: 3009300" data-attributes="member: 30610">That may not be disputed, but you do need a game mechanic to resolve things that are less obvious, and this mechanic should work with things that are obvious.&nbsp; The very habit of not using rules to decide things when rules already exist is dangerous - if you arbitrarily throw a system out on a whim when it doesn't feel right for spotting, how do your players know that you won't arbitrarily throw the system out when the rules don't feel right in combat?&nbsp; How does a player with +60 to Spot know that you aren't omitting things in the distance, beyond what normal vision would allow, that he might want to know about?&nbsp; Without the rules, how do you judge the difference between, say, two characters with +80 and +90 to Spot?&nbsp; Such a situation is beyond normal experience, and going with what &quot;just feels right&quot; is likely to introduce large errors.Your statement that you can see the sun just fine despite its distance is what implies that you think that things should work in DnD just because they work in real life.&nbsp; I'm glad for your clarification, however.Yet you posted it, not I.You have me there; five thousand was an arbitrary number that I typed without stopping to consider the magnitude of the distance involved.&nbsp; Want to make it one quadrillion google-plex?&nbsp; The point is that you can assign some sufficiently large number and make things work within the framework of a rules system.And sometimes the DM has no idea if the party should be able to see someone or something.&nbsp; That's why we have the rules in the first place.&nbsp; If I wanted to play a game where I just said, &quot;I think this should happen,&quot; I wouldn't play DnD.&nbsp; DnD's strength lies in its rules.&nbsp; There are plenty of other systems - In Nomine, Mage, etc. - where the DM can just say &quot;This is what happens; don't bother rolling those dice.&quot;This is the DnD rules forum, where we ask for clarifications on what the DnD rules say, right?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="moritheil, post: 3009300, member: 30610"] That may not be disputed, but you [i]do[/i] need a game mechanic to resolve things that are less obvious, and this mechanic should work with things that are obvious. The very habit of not using rules to decide things when rules already exist is dangerous - if you arbitrarily throw a system out on a whim when it doesn't feel right for spotting, how do your players know that you won't arbitrarily throw the system out when the rules don't feel right in combat? How does a player with +60 to Spot know that you aren't omitting things in the distance, beyond what normal vision would allow, that he might want to know about? Without the rules, how do you judge the difference between, say, two characters with +80 and +90 to Spot? Such a situation is beyond normal experience, and going with what "just feels right" is likely to introduce large errors. Your statement that you can see the sun just fine despite its distance is what implies that you think that things should work in DnD just because they work in real life. I'm glad for your clarification, however. Yet you posted it, not I. You have me there; five thousand was an arbitrary number that I typed without stopping to consider the magnitude of the distance involved. Want to make it one quadrillion google-plex? The point is that you can assign some sufficiently large number and make things work within the framework of a rules system. And sometimes the DM has no idea if the party should be able to see someone or something. That's why we have the rules in the first place. If I wanted to play a game where I just said, "I think this should happen," I wouldn't play DnD. DnD's strength lies in its rules. There are plenty of other systems - In Nomine, Mage, etc. - where the DM can just say "This is what happens; don't bother rolling those dice." This [i]is[/i] the DnD rules forum, where we ask for clarifications on what the DnD rules say, right? [/QUOTE]

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