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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aurumvorax" data-source="post: 5709407" data-attributes="member: 87266">In order for alignment to make sense you have to establish if it's metaphysical or based on societal standards.  If it's metaphysical, as in how the universe views things, then everyone should adhere to those restrictions.  If entering a dungeon, killing the denizens inside, and stealing their treasure isn't an evil act then neither is a band of orcs sacking a village.  If alignment is societal, then it varies by society.  In feudal Japan, stealing a dead warrior's possessions was dishonorable: they belonged to the family of the slain.  In some cultures, merely touching a dead body was something only holy men could do because dead flesh was either sacred or considered unsavory.  If this is the case, then one culture that believes it is lawful to claim a fallen warrior's sword isn't any more right or wrong than a culture that believes it is lawful to eat the heart of a fallen opponent.And this is where D&D's alignment system falls apart as a mechanic.  It implies that alignment is both societal and metaphysical: the planes are metaphysical entities based on alignment but law/chaos/good/evil can apply to society... except when they don't or when society is held by metaphysical standards (if the king is evil, by proxy his country is evil).  By some medieval standards, a noble lord has the right to execute a prisoner if he deems it necessary.  And yet, there are conflicting publications and opinions on whether this is an evil or unlawful act, even if allowed by society.  Paladins fall because the player and the DM have conflicting concepts of how the players should be run when in truth it's impossible to establish alignment when society and the universe clash.My comment is based upon the insinuation that the PCs are adventurers.  They explore the world, take on dungeons, slay monsters, and hoard treasure.  If your PCs do something else, that's fine, but D&D is traditionally a game about about dungeon crawling.  Every edition, even 4E, heavily imply this and I'm probably not wrong in saying that the majority of players play this way (at least for their first time).  When your job is to fight monsters and loot dungeons, alignment as anything but a guideline gets in the way.Even as someone who felt 2E was the best edition, I subscribe to OD&D's handling of alignment.  You're either lawful, chaotic, or neutral: everything happens for a reason, there is no reason so do whatever, or it's not important if there's a reason or not because life is what we make of it.  Good and evil are absolutes and mortals can't be absolute.  I've never had a single argument at the table because the lawful, altruistic fighter is just as capable of wrath as the chaotic, conniving thief is capable of humility.  Only immortals/outsiders are capable of flawless good and evil.</blockquote>

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