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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gaerek" data-source="post: 5697324" data-attributes="member: 73666">First of all, I've read most of the responses since I last posted, but not all. I apologize if I missed a point somewhere. Please correct me. I haven't been able to follow this thread because I have had actual work to do at work. Having said that, it appears to me that there are two main arguments against Healing Surges. 1) The realism argument - Many of you have been making it, though I don't think it was intended. Anytime you say, "It doesn't make sense." or anything like that, it's a realism argument. If you want your game to be realistic, there are a bunch of simulationist games out there that might be more to your tastes. As it is, however, D&D has ALWAYS been one of the most gamey feeling games out there. Someone responded to a few of my "realism" arguments. Understand that I don't care if something is realistic or not. Taken to it's natural point, every one of those things can (operative word...can) be considering unrealistic. And to comment on the comment about AC being unrealistic, AC is not realistic. It also is an abstract about how hard it is to be hit. Only part of it reflects how well your actual armor protects you. Unless you're not adding your Dex bonus? But I digress again (sorry, one of my personal flaws). Essentially, you can throw out any appeal to realism in this discussion, because: a) D&D is not a realistic simulationb) There are dozens, if not hundreds of abstract, gamist, non-realistic rules that are bundled with EVERY edition of D&D. If you're not ok with HS because they aren't realistic, then you're not ok with D&D in general. 2. The 0-HP, or Mortal Wound argument - I had never actually heard this one before, and never really thought much about it. Narratively, the idea of a healing surge (and really, only Second Wind, and the ability to burn HS between combat, specifically, any other use seems pretty reasonable) makes little sense. I can't argue against this one, because the truth is there. However, I have a couple directions I can go to show why I'm ok with it. a) 0-HP, and neg-HP has always been a wonky area in D&D. It's been a while since I've playing anything but 3e and 4e, but wasn't there a rule in a previous edition that said 0hp was unconscious and neg HP was dead, and there were different rules for each? This means that the higher level you are, the smaller the "unconscious" target was and the larger the damage "arrow" is. In other words, as you got more powerful, your chances of going unconscious at any point decrease. This isn't really reason enough, but there has always been A LOT of suspension of disbelief in each and every edition when it came to death and dying. No one edition really nailed this area well. I will submit that 4e seems more out there than other editions, but this brings me to: b) I hate rules that get in the way of fun. I especially hate rules that get in the way of fun for the sake of realism. 4e's healing surge system breaks down the narrative at 0 Hp and below. But, what's the option? In previous editions, I hated playing a cleric (it was better in 3e, but not by much). My choices in combat were heal the injured, or brain the bad guy with my mace. 3e allowed clerics to not have to memorize heals. BUT, this came with a caveat. Any spells you cast that's not a heal better have an affect that will likely eliminate the need for said heal. At least from my perspective, that eliminated about half the cleric's spell book. Cleric's have never been fun (until 4e). I've always hated the Wand of Cure Light. I thought it was at best, a bandaid in a broken system, or at worst a gaming of the rules to allow a party to do more than was intended. From my perspective, and this is completely my opinion, and I totally understand why you disagree, even though they might be less realistic, or put the player in Schrodinger's Box (as has been mentioned), healing surges make the game more fun, and give players more options in character builds and party builds. If there was a way to do that without healing surges, I'd LOVE to see it. But I would never, ever, ever, want to go back to healbots and healsticks.</blockquote>

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