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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5706064" data-attributes="member: 6668292">I disagree here, based on experience. In a cinematic game, it'd probably be higher level PCs against a lot of lower level goblins or other monsters (they'd be the equivalent of minions), while fighting the real threat (or just owning lower level goblins).3.X certainly had problems. I think they can be fixed (and I tried to, at least to my satisfaction).Let's take this example: a PC is fighting, and gets dropped into the negatives, and has to start making saves or he dies. Another PC, and trained healer, asks how the injured PC looks, even going out of his way to move to the injured PC to inspect him. If the character is dying, the trained healer will stop -mid combat- to aid the PC. However, if he's just down, and can shrug it off (Warlord's "get up!" ability), the trained healer PC will say a quick encouraging word (for no mechanical benefit) and rejoin the fray.My current understanding is that the mechanics get in the way of letting the player gain any concrete information -the PC might be fine with no aid, in which case the wound wasn't that bad (he will be fully healed on an extended rest). However, if the PC dies, then obviously the wound was much worse. This makes it hard to narrate as a GM when a player engages with an important portion of the game (PC mortality).This is directly relevant to my last session, when a PC's wife was dropped into the negatives, and the PC let his allies mop up the enemies while he checked on his wife. She eventually stabilized on her own, so in 4e, this means she wouldn't have been that badly injured (she lived, will recover on an extended rest). However, when the PC checked, nobody has any idea if the PC's wife will stabilize or not, so an accurate description is basically impossible to give. The PC in my game stopped to give medical attention to his wife (he had minor training in healing) rather than continue. With the healing surge situation (and the Warlord in particular), I couldn't have given relevant information to the player. I could have said, "she's bloody but you don't know how bad" but that's pretty unsatisfactory when the player gets a high or very high result on the Heal check.Incapacitated includes the long term, so no, not just limited to permanently crippling someone. You know, a wound that takes someone out for a couple days, or a week, or two weeks, or something. They'll make a full recovery, but it''ll take a while as the wound heals.If the rules supported this as a mechanical alternative to death, I think that could be very interesting. I do want it in the rules, but as long as it's possible within the narrative via the base rules (or complexity dials, if Mr. Mearls wants it to be like that), I'd be pretty satisfied with it.I think it would be to heal them if they were lost out of combat, just like 4e; that is, if you lost an arm willingly, or you were held down while your tongue was removed, or the like. I'd like to see permanent injury possible within combat (as I find it much more likely to happen there), and 3.X certainly failed here for me.It's not permanent even against magic. In fact, I think permanent unless there's magical aid fits both cinematic high fantasy and gritty swords and sorcery very well. I'm saying mundanely permanent.</blockquote>

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