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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5706318" data-attributes="member: 957">That isn't what you said and it isn't what I challenged.You said in 4E it is no different than any prior edition because there was no condition of being truly wounded.But you are wrong because the fact that the condition can be very short lived in 3E doesn't make that condition no exist.Under the rules of 3E a fighter alone in the wounds can survive a fight but be in need of healing that make take several days without finding aid.In 4E a fighter alone in the woods who survives a fight can surge away any damage taken.&nbsp; The previous potential for being in a state of being wounded and needing healing is now gone.I think actual data trumps your assessment.&nbsp; But, for sake of argument, lets presume you are correct.Do you agree that your assessment offers nothing to &quot;outliers&quot; such as myself and that us &quot;outliers&quot; have decent reason to dislike surges?&nbsp; What do surges offer to us &quot;outliers&quot; that doesn't reduce the quality of the game.Again, you are focusing on the GAME and completely ignoring the STORY.Hypothetically let's agree that fighter 1 in a 3E game kills some BBEGs, loses HP and then gets back to full HP.&nbsp; And fighter 2 in a 4E games does exactly the same thing.&nbsp; Yes, mechanically they are equal.&nbsp; But the equality ends there.In the 3E game the fighter may have taken wounds which required significant time to recover from.&nbsp; It is only the application of divine aid that removes the wounds quickly.In 4E you can describe the exact same wounds.&nbsp; But then you need to describe the fighter simply making them disappear.&nbsp; And not in a Jack Bauer, fight-now go to hospital when the terrorists are dead way, but in a the wounds are gone forever just because way.&nbsp; Or you can limit your story in such a way that the fighter may not ever be truly wounded.&nbsp; Both options work for 4E.&nbsp; But you may not describe wounds which require true healing and maintain a quality narrative.And, just as an aside, my current PF game has no cleric.....</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 5706318, member: 957"] That isn't what you said and it isn't what I challenged. You said in 4E it is no different than any prior edition because there was no condition of being truly wounded. But you are wrong because the fact that the condition [b]can be[/b] very short lived in 3E doesn't make that condition no exist. Under the rules of 3E a fighter alone in the wounds can survive a fight but be in need of healing that make take several days without finding aid. In 4E a fighter alone in the woods who survives a fight can surge away any damage taken. The previous potential for being in a state of being wounded and needing healing is now gone. I think actual data trumps your assessment. But, for sake of argument, lets presume you are correct. Do you agree that your assessment offers nothing to "outliers" such as myself and that us "outliers" have decent reason to dislike surges? What do surges offer to us "outliers" that doesn't reduce the quality of the game. Again, you are focusing on the GAME and completely ignoring the STORY. Hypothetically let's agree that fighter 1 in a 3E game kills some BBEGs, loses HP and then gets back to full HP. And fighter 2 in a 4E games does exactly the same thing. Yes, mechanically they are equal. But the equality ends there. In the 3E game the fighter may have taken wounds which required significant time to recover from. It is only the application of divine aid that removes the wounds quickly. In 4E you can describe the exact same wounds. But then you need to describe the fighter simply making them disappear. And not in a Jack Bauer, fight-now go to hospital when the terrorists are dead way, but in a the wounds are gone forever just because way. Or you can limit your story in such a way that the fighter may not ever be truly wounded. Both options work for 4E. But you may not describe wounds which require true healing and maintain a quality narrative. And, just as an aside, my current PF game has no cleric..... [/QUOTE]

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