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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mort" data-source="post: 5706361" data-attributes="member: 762">Only if you look at simple  physical damage, which has always had wonky treatment in every iteration of D&D. If you really want to harrass a 4e party simply use poisons, diseases and offshoots of that mechanic. A fighter alone in the woods who gets infected with some disease - he's not surging that away. Very easy to introduce other such conditions. I did this to my group a few sessions ago, a romp through a disease infested sewer ended up with half of them suffering from filth fever. You can't just surge it away and resting is a gamble because resting and failing a save will make it worse (in addition to taking lots of time the party didn't have). This really added a fun dynamic as the group had to weigh running back to get magical healing or finishing the time sensative mission. They powered through and finished the mission but the disease track added a fun new element.I haven't read through the whole thread so have no idea if these concepts have already been beaten to death but there are so many things surges can do that were hard to model in prior edditions.Easy example fatigue - best way to model fatigue I have yet seen in any edition of D&D. I love the fact that some rituals (such as knock) fatigue the caster (ie drain a surge) I wish this would be done more often.As stated above, my group was faced with this exact (hard) choice and it worked great.  I don't think you have to limit the story at all and in fact there are now outlets for more stories. HPs haven't gotten that much more abstract then they've always been (come on in 3e you received HPs back based on level which caused weird issues of the high HP fighters technically "healing" more slowly than the mage - how's that for odd?).Interesting, and are you saying the DM is not compensating at all - or that you're groups playstyle has not had to change to accomodate the lack of magical healing?</blockquote>

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