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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 5706457" data-attributes="member: 48965">Wait a minute are we talking about modeling fatigue or death spirals in combat due to wounds? I don't believe they are the same thing. When one is fatigued in the real world science shows that it has an effect on one's ability and performance of tasks. Not sure what you telling me to google death spirals or even fights has to do with this since we are talking about fatigue. See the -2 to Str and Dex of 3.5 affects your ability to perform tasks inside and outside of combat... the loss of a healing surge does none of this. I'm just having a hard time understanding how you could feel the loss of healing surges models fatigue better than the condition in 3.5???  This is not how most studies on sleep deprivation/fatigue/etc. claim that it works. A programmer running on no sleep doesn't perform at optimal effeciency until all of a sudden he collapses and can do nothing... you will notice a decrease in performance the longer he goes without rest thus normal->fatigued->exhausted (which is basically the lowest point of your effectiveness).  It seems that one minute you're making the claim that it models fatigue the best of any edition but in the post above you're saying well yeah, you can just kinda say it's fatigue just like you could claim it's a bunch of other things that are causing you to loose healing surges... these two stances while not opposed to each other do not make a strong argument for your postion. I am also still confused with your equating of the fatigued condition with a death spiral... which it doesn't create in 3.5 and is thus a moot point in this discussion.    See the problem is that every action doesn't have greater consequences, only actions in which you risk hit point loss have greater consequences... anything else is just as easy as it was when you didn't have any surges fatigued away. So If you tried to lift and carry small boulders to clear a path, in 4e you suffer nothing even though you are supposed to be fatigued... in 3.5 lifting those boulders and carrying them is actuallyu harder because you are fatigued and you can only do it for so long before you become exhausted.    Again, all of your actions don't.</blockquote>

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