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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5718767" data-attributes="member: 957">The thing I keep saying is that by the rules, any combat damage may be surged away by any character.True, but they divorce healing from EVERYTHING else at the same time.  You call it a hand wave in 3E, and yet a 4E fighter can literally remove ANY wound with just that.First, disease, poison, etc... are a separate matter that have nothing to do with the surge discussion.  Second, you claim more room, and yet you provide no justification whatsoever that the rest doesn't happen in non 3E games.  Because it does AND I don't have surge issues.  This is where I get very frustrated.  This exact point has been beaten over and over through this thread and prior threads.  Hit points have issues and I agree with that.  4E hit points have ALL the issues of HP and SURGES bring a whole new realm of problem on top of that.You are going to go back and find where I already discussed all this or just not worry about it.  Because the second I repeat it all YET AGAIN, another person will drop into the thread and declare that I am required to start over from the beginning again.  Lastly, you are mixing and match conditions and wounds.  Conditions are nothing new to 4E.  Conditions bring awesome benefits to the game.  I will, at least for sake of argument, just concede that conditions in 4E are every bit as awesome as they are in 3E.  But, in 3E I have conditions and I also have wounds that fighter may not simply surge out of existence.  The topic is surges and 4e fighter may surge away their (non-condition) wounds. The bottom line seem to be that what is "as close as it makes no difference" to you is nowhere near close enough for me.  And that is fine.  I'm not saying that I'm right and you are wrong.  I'm saying I have my opinion and tastes and you have yours and anyone who claims they can't "get" the dislike of surges simply needs to either ignore the point or work on understanding opposing viewpoints.  But the insistence that finding surges to fundamentally and negatively impact the quality of the game is unreasonable is just silly.</blockquote>

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