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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hassassin" data-source="post: 5725823" data-attributes="member: 6675228">Two ogres against a 5th level party is a good example. Your AC 23 and +8 attack are reasonable for a sword+shield Fighter at that level (though 25 and +10 wouldn't be impossible). Approximately 2/3 chance to hit an ogre, 1/4 chance to be hit. For damage lets say 9 (1d10 + 4), though this is probably too low.Simulate combat between two fighters and two ogres. Straight up fight, no tactics, ogres go first.Ogres do an average of 4 damage/round each, fighters do an average of 6. The first ogre drops on average after five fighter turns, i.e. it gets three actions of 4 damage average each. The second gets another two on top for a total of 32 damage from the both of them.If the fighters go first instead its a total of six actions for the ogres, for 24 damage.That damage is approximately 25% of the total hp resources of the two fighters. No other resources (e.g. magic items) from them were consumed, nor anything from the other PCs. No real tactics were used, the contribution of other party members was ignored, there was no surprise round.I think you can imagine how a real party might have done *much* better than this <10% loss of resources.</blockquote>