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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tomBitonti" data-source="post: 5726341" data-attributes="member: 13107">Oh wow; I'm thinking that the fight could swing a lot worse, either way.Don't Ogres have greatclubs, for 1d10+4?  They also have power attack, with a +4 bonus would make damage up to 1d10+12.If, on the first round, the Ogres charge (they were hiding on the sides of the road), then both Ogres get a +2 for charging, and one gets +2 on top of that for a flank.  Plus whatever penalty the player gets for being flat footed.At 4th level, a 21-22 AC for a fighter (+8 Plate, +2 Shield, +1 Magic, +1 Dex) is very normal.  On the other hand, that might be: (+4 Chain, +1 Buckler, +3 Dex, +1 Magic) for 19, with a 16 when flat footed.A +8 attack against AC 21 with either 2 PA or 4 PA would be:0.4 * 1d10 + 8: 0.4 * 1d10 + 120.8 * 31 or about 24 points.Here is a breakdown of the damage ranges:0.36 (Both miss)0.24 (9-18) (One hit)0.24 (13-22) (The other hit)0.16 (22-40) (Both hit)That is a little low because crits are ignored.  And a lot low if the second target is used.And then, this becomes much worse if the Ogres also win initiative.  Another round of attacks!Of course, that is pretty much a worst case scenario.  And a rather contrived circumstance: Except in very hostile regions, how often do two bloodthirsty Ogres jump out of the roadside offering no quarter?  Then, if the area is so hostile, why is the party traipsing down the road oblivious to the danger?  A careful party would be cautious around any obvious hiding points.  (As a parallel example: I'm continuous adjusting my driving to keep away potential hazards.  Well in advance of an actual hazard.)Fights are often very sensitive to the starting conditions.TomB</blockquote>

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