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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5726526" data-attributes="member: 22779">Wiseblood - IMO, the lethality in AD&D generally came from save or die effects which everyone and his bloody dog got.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />  Outright combat damage?  Not so much.  3e monsters are just so much bigger and output so much more damage than AD&D monsters.  Never minding that at least by 2e anyway, the fighter types do considerably more damage while the monsters aren't typically (with a few notable exceptions - giants and dragons) much higher HP than their 1e counterparts.But, as I said, that wasn't really the point.  I'm more than willing to debate this and examine it further, although that would derail this thread even further.  It was more the fact that this actually could be discussed using facts.------------Honestly, I'm not trying to be a dick here.  Really I'm not.  HOnest.  No stop laughing.  I'm really not.  Ok.  I'll wait until you clean up your monitor.  Yes. yes.  Ok.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Take Az(sp)'s group.  Nice group.  The only problem is, eventually you're going to fail stealth checks.  That's going to happen.  And, when it does, this group is going to die.  It has no healing beyond potions.  The MT didn't memorize healing spells, so, no healing in combat.  The party has AC's that are easily hit (unless the party is lazer beam focusing) and the first mass Will save and the MT is toast as the other three characters obliterate him.Heck, Harpies would absolutely destroy this party, just as an easy example.  If you're regularly scoring surprise on every encounter, something funky is going on.  There's just too many die rolls for you to succeed that often.  This particular group would be Fine.. Fine... Fine... DEAD.I have a very strong suspicion that these playstyles are being aided considerably by the playstyle of the DM.  That the ability to play this way has a lot less to do with mechanics and a lot more to do with what the DM brings to the table.</blockquote>

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