NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rogue Agent" data-source="post: 5726645" data-attributes="member: 6673496">When I read that in the specific context of 4E, what I see is: "Since significant chunks of 4E aren't roleplaying mechanics, if you want to have roleplaying you'll need to pull it into the game through sheer force of will."Which is true. And which is exactly what most of the 4E games I've played in have looked like. (I've also had a couple of completely miserable sessions where that hasn't been a priority for the group.)So why isn't that good enough? Well, largely because the mechanics have become primarily a liability at that point. Playing 4E feels like an unnecessary wrestling match. I'm having to do a lot of heavy lifting to carry use over the gaps left by those large chunks of non-roleplaying mechanics.Honest question here: Why wouldn't you prefer to use a system that actually supported your narrative goals? Or simply a system that was a hell of a lot less bulky than D&D4?I mean, if the only thing the mechanics are contributing to your goals is that they mostly aren't in the way, what's the point of using them at all?I think this is the core of what I, honestly, read as the gaping fallacy in your interpretation of 4th Edition.You seem to be saying, "Skill challenges require you to use fictional positioning because they'd be pretty <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> for roleplaying/storytelling if you didn't do it."But what mechanic wouldn't that be true for?When you play 4E you seem to put a lot more into the game than what the game provides. And that's great. I'm not trying to diss that or dismiss that. I did the exact same thing when I ran 4E.I just don't credit 4E for accomplishing those things.</blockquote>

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