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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5730320" data-attributes="member: 22779">Jameson Courage - in other words, it's doable by abusing some of the most broken spells in the game - Glitterdust and Grease and Entangle.  Note, we're not supposed to be using spells here since we have to save our highest level spells for later.  4th level wizard isn't supposed to need to cast his Glitterdust spell according to some.Or, to put it another way, get a caster or go home.  Note, the AD&D party is doing this without a caster.  They can take on 8 ogres at any time and can probably do it multiple times per day, so long as their HP hold out.Oh, and btw, Glitterdust is a 10 foot radius spread.  Sure, if 4 of the ogres are standing shoulder to shoulder, then you could get half of them.  Never mind that the other 4 are STILL going to obliterate your party.  Bottlenecking?  Good grief, you just want your fighter to die don't you?  I've got reach and you don't.  I don't need to get into the doorway to hit the fighter.  2 ogres can attack from 10 feet back and the fighter gets kersplatted.Once the fighter goes down, everyone else has a serious, serious problem.8 Ogres is a CR 9 encounter.  If you are regularly doing EL+5 encounters without much difficulty, it's time to brush up on your monster tactics.  That or the writers of 3.5 D&D were completely off base when they tried to determine how difficult encounters should be.I will agree that 7 PC's make an ENORMOUS difference.  Then again, a party of 7 PC's is about +3-4 levels on their effective party level.  That makes 8 ogres about a par encounter.-------Edit to add a later thought.Throughout this thread, I've been told that the reason parties don't need healing is smart play.  That they would simply run away from encounter like this and never engage.  Yet, when I bring up a virtually overwhelming encounter, the first reaction is to charge right in, blow spells and away we go.</blockquote>

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