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"I don't like my Christmas present" -- do you enjoy getting treasure?
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5833064" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>AD&D modules, and particularly 'adventure path' style modules are notoriously packed with loot - far exceeding the guidelines of the Monster Manual or DMG. I'm not entirely sure why this is, since you'd have to ask the designer, but there is pretty good evidence from the numbers that in the case of the adventure path type modules (GDQ, for example) that its a conscious decision to power level the PC's through the module centric campaign to ensure that they'll have enough XP/loot to be able to immediately transition to the next module. I also think that there was an assumption that not all loot would be found and that some significant amount would be destroyed (see the rather harsh 1e rules for item destruction when the PC's fail a save) along the way. </p><p></p><p>Whenever I adapted published modules to play, I tended to scale the loot down some on the grounds that in a campaign, I would probably fill the space between two modules with wilderness travel, wandering encounters, side treks, and encounters that had to do with the overarching structure and story I was fitting the modules into. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In 1e, having less than optimal items at higher levels isn't a big deal, because beyond 9th level, there really is a very short list of monsters that can challenge a PC party anyway. Indeed arguably, being stingy with items means that you can extend the 1e game out longer than you could otherwise (without a lot of creativity). With the best possible items, the PC's are dominating by 10th level. Without them, they might have difficulty out to 15th level or so. First 1e high level characters are so durable, that its a challenge to kill them any way.</p><p></p><p>I remember playing 1e campaigns where the random loot really did add up. We had bags of holding filled with unused magic items, mostly of the +1 magic weapon variaty. Yet I don't recall ever being disappointed by that. It was logical; we would have considered it wierd if suddenly low level magic items disappeared in the world solely because we were 10th level. Indeed, one thing that annoys me the most about modern cRPGs is that the world levels up around you. I mean, why have leveling at all if you are only adding numbers proportionately to keep the math the same? In that group, most of these items were used to outfit followers and henchmen (which resulted in huge loyalty bonuses), with the end result that several followers and henchmen ended up becoming PC's in their own right - alternate characters that were played when the higher level 'Lord' characters were busy elsewhere. I mean really, what sort of Lord would we be if we couldn't bestow gifts on our followers? And it was nice to know 'the help' could rather competently defend the home base should it get attacked while we were away. Thirty or forty 6th-7th level henchmen with a full array of magic items constituted a small but highly elite army in 1e.</p><p></p><p>I can't help but think that the disappointment with magic items has less to do with the magic items themselves, than it did with flaws in the balance of 3e gaming at high levels. Without the assumption that high level PC's will easily die without optimal magical defenses, there wouldn't be as much emotional pressure to have those exact optimal items.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5833064, member: 4937"] AD&D modules, and particularly 'adventure path' style modules are notoriously packed with loot - far exceeding the guidelines of the Monster Manual or DMG. I'm not entirely sure why this is, since you'd have to ask the designer, but there is pretty good evidence from the numbers that in the case of the adventure path type modules (GDQ, for example) that its a conscious decision to power level the PC's through the module centric campaign to ensure that they'll have enough XP/loot to be able to immediately transition to the next module. I also think that there was an assumption that not all loot would be found and that some significant amount would be destroyed (see the rather harsh 1e rules for item destruction when the PC's fail a save) along the way. Whenever I adapted published modules to play, I tended to scale the loot down some on the grounds that in a campaign, I would probably fill the space between two modules with wilderness travel, wandering encounters, side treks, and encounters that had to do with the overarching structure and story I was fitting the modules into. In 1e, having less than optimal items at higher levels isn't a big deal, because beyond 9th level, there really is a very short list of monsters that can challenge a PC party anyway. Indeed arguably, being stingy with items means that you can extend the 1e game out longer than you could otherwise (without a lot of creativity). With the best possible items, the PC's are dominating by 10th level. Without them, they might have difficulty out to 15th level or so. First 1e high level characters are so durable, that its a challenge to kill them any way. I remember playing 1e campaigns where the random loot really did add up. We had bags of holding filled with unused magic items, mostly of the +1 magic weapon variaty. Yet I don't recall ever being disappointed by that. It was logical; we would have considered it wierd if suddenly low level magic items disappeared in the world solely because we were 10th level. Indeed, one thing that annoys me the most about modern cRPGs is that the world levels up around you. I mean, why have leveling at all if you are only adding numbers proportionately to keep the math the same? In that group, most of these items were used to outfit followers and henchmen (which resulted in huge loyalty bonuses), with the end result that several followers and henchmen ended up becoming PC's in their own right - alternate characters that were played when the higher level 'Lord' characters were busy elsewhere. I mean really, what sort of Lord would we be if we couldn't bestow gifts on our followers? And it was nice to know 'the help' could rather competently defend the home base should it get attacked while we were away. Thirty or forty 6th-7th level henchmen with a full array of magic items constituted a small but highly elite army in 1e. I can't help but think that the disappointment with magic items has less to do with the magic items themselves, than it did with flaws in the balance of 3e gaming at high levels. Without the assumption that high level PC's will easily die without optimal magical defenses, there wouldn't be as much emotional pressure to have those exact optimal items. [/QUOTE]
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