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<blockquote data-quote="ForceUser" data-source="post: 2885751" data-attributes="member: 2785">Don't get me wrong, I think it's a neat idea for a class. But as far as I can tell, while a beguiler is adept at incapacitating enemies, he is absolutely incapable of killing them. Verses undead, he seems nearly as useless as a rogue, unless, like a rogue, he keeps maximum ranks in Use magic Device so he can use damage spells that are not on his class list.Furthermore, what is the benefit to the surprise casting class feature when the class doesn't get a sneak attack progression? The beguiler can catch enemies flat-footed with spells. Okay. Is there any benefit to this that I am missing, other than perhaps lowering a dexterous opponent's AC for a touch attack?I can see how this class works well as a member of a team, where the other characters dispatch the foes that the beguiler incapacitates. I can see how the class makes an excellent magical spy and trap finder. But the apparent lack of ability to end foes seems a glaring weakness to me. I want to like the class, but I can't see what a beguiler can do that an enchanter or illusionist couldn't do better. Why, for instance, would I use a beguiler as a BBEG when I can use a wizard?What do you think?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ForceUser, post: 2885751, member: 2785"] Don't get me wrong, I think it's a neat idea for a class. But as far as I can tell, while a beguiler is adept at incapacitating enemies, he is absolutely incapable of killing them. Verses undead, he seems nearly as useless as a rogue, unless, like a rogue, he keeps maximum ranks in Use magic Device so he can use damage spells that are not on his class list. Furthermore, what is the benefit to the [B]surprise casting[/B] class feature when the class doesn't get a sneak attack progression? The beguiler can catch enemies flat-footed with spells. Okay. Is there any benefit to this that I am missing, other than perhaps lowering a dexterous opponent's AC for a touch attack? I can see how this class works well as a member of a team, where the other characters dispatch the foes that the beguiler incapacitates. I can see how the class makes an excellent magical spy and trap finder. But the apparent lack of ability to end foes seems a glaring weakness to me. I want to like the class, but I can't see what a beguiler can do that an enchanter or illusionist couldn't do better. Why, for instance, would I use a beguiler as a BBEG when I can use a wizard? What do you think? [/QUOTE]

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