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<blockquote data-quote="cooperjer" data-source="post: 7255487" data-attributes="member: 6862150">An interesting thought came up in Wednesday AL Princes of the Apocalypse when a PC acquires the earth temple war pick that grants tremor sense 60-ft.&nbsp; The PC wants to get a strong understanding of how many NPCs are behind a door or down a curvy hallway.&nbsp; I had the player roll a perception check.&nbsp; In this case the environment was dimly lit by glowing crystals, so it was a roll at disadvantage.&nbsp; A few questions came to my mind regarding that scenario:1. Why is the PC at disadvantage due to dim light?&nbsp;&nbsp; a. The PH indicates this is the rule.&nbsp;&nbsp; b. In this case the PC can now sense motion through the ground as easily as it can see motion through space.&nbsp;&nbsp; c. How does dim light grant disadvantage if there are two senses (tremor sense &amp; hearing) working to detect a location of a creature?2. Would using passive tremor sense be like using passive visual sense?&nbsp;&nbsp; a. If one can sense motion past a wall is it not enough that a passive sense of that motion would also indicate how many creatures there are, and their relative distance to you?3. How long does it take to become accustomed to acquiring a new sense?&nbsp;&nbsp; a. Would using the new sense be at disadvantage for some time until the user became accustomed to it?&nbsp;&nbsp; b. Can the new sense be used passively if the character is not accustomed to it?I feel that it's appropriate to have the player roll to determine the number of creatures, approximate distance, and size category, and even if some are in stone armor.&nbsp; I feel that a tremor sense passive&nbsp; perception will let the player know if creatures are present and if there are a few, several, or a crowd.&nbsp; It would also let a player know if there is a significantly large creature in the room.&nbsp; I feel that dim light is not applicable to using tremor sense and thus rolls would not be at disadvantage.&nbsp; However, in this case the PC was within 60-ft of a large waterfall and thus I feel the waterfall vibration would cause disadvantage.How would you use a new sense in passive perception?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="cooperjer, post: 7255487, member: 6862150"] An interesting thought came up in Wednesday AL Princes of the Apocalypse when a PC acquires the earth temple war pick that grants tremor sense 60-ft. The PC wants to get a strong understanding of how many NPCs are behind a door or down a curvy hallway. I had the player roll a perception check. In this case the environment was dimly lit by glowing crystals, so it was a roll at disadvantage. A few questions came to my mind regarding that scenario: 1. Why is the PC at disadvantage due to dim light? a. The PH indicates this is the rule. b. In this case the PC can now sense motion through the ground as easily as it can see motion through space. c. How does dim light grant disadvantage if there are two senses (tremor sense & hearing) working to detect a location of a creature? 2. Would using passive tremor sense be like using passive visual sense? a. If one can sense motion past a wall is it not enough that a passive sense of that motion would also indicate how many creatures there are, and their relative distance to you? 3. How long does it take to become accustomed to acquiring a new sense? a. Would using the new sense be at disadvantage for some time until the user became accustomed to it? b. Can the new sense be used passively if the character is not accustomed to it? I feel that it's appropriate to have the player roll to determine the number of creatures, approximate distance, and size category, and even if some are in stone armor. I feel that a tremor sense passive perception will let the player know if creatures are present and if there are a few, several, or a crowd. It would also let a player know if there is a significantly large creature in the room. I feel that dim light is not applicable to using tremor sense and thus rolls would not be at disadvantage. However, in this case the PC was within 60-ft of a large waterfall and thus I feel the waterfall vibration would cause disadvantage. How would you use a new sense in passive perception? [/QUOTE]

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