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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5694121" data-attributes="member: 957">Wrong.  "D&D" isn't anything other than a specific brand name applied to a specific collection of Role Playing Games.However, 4E is so different that it is distinctly recognizable from any of the other games that share that brand identity.  This is also true of 3E.Not sure I'd go nearly so far as to agree with the extent of change you are claiming.  But, for sake of argument I can easily go with this s a given.Which version, 1970 or 2011, would you claim an average fan would not recognize as "football"?  What sport do you think they would claim it was?(As a side note, despite my strong disagreement with your claim, I do find it amusing that you are trying to dispute my position that 4E is readily distinct by pointing out that, in your opinion, changes to football make it unrecognizable as the same.  Isn't that exactly the opposite of the point you are making about 4E?)But, back on point, I could play Trailblazer, or Pathfinder, or Arcana Unearthed, or True20, or Spycraft.  Several of those are so completely different than D&D 3E that the changes to football since 1970 pale in comparison.  And yet no reasonable person would confuse any of those games for 4E and any person who paid a minimally adequate attention would recognize any one of them as a variant of 3E.Wild variations of football remain instantly recognizable as football and are not confused for any other sport.  Wild variations of 3E remain instantly recognizable as versions of 3E.The whole "not D&D" line is a lame red herring that I have spoken against to you specifically on more than one occasion.  So you know I don't think that.  As I've said, "D&D" is just a brand name, nothing more nothing less.  3E is radically different than the versions prior to it and, imo, thank god for that.  There is nothing sacred about "being D&D".  There are versions of D&D that are awesome and versions that.... are not.4E is so different it is clearly a whole new version of D&D.I was HOPING for exactly that when 4E was announced.  BUT, I was also hoping for a whole new version of D&D that I thought was awesome.  I'd rather 5E (whenever it comes) be a whole new version that I think sucks that just be a simple recycle.  Obviously, I'd really rather it be whole new and awesome.  But, please, be new.But, really, replacing my point about 4E and other editions being CLEARLY different with a pathetic claim that I'm saying it "isn't D&D" despite you knowing full well I reject that point is just lame.</blockquote>

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