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I figured out why all 5e ship rules suck
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<blockquote data-quote="Voi_D_ragon" data-source="post: 8777540" data-attributes="member: 6855956"><p><s>Well, this got posted before I even got through the first answer, so it'll be awhile before it's finished. Didn't know TAB posted -.-</s></p><p>Ok all caught up, post is good to go.</p><p></p><p>Alright, so I wanted to get to some of these yesterday but i couldn't remember my password from my phone and it was too late to fire up the old PC (Europe).</p><p></p><p>I'm just going to make a super long post for everyone, so look for your quote in here if you get notified.</p><p></p><p>Also, I'm going to outline some things I have planned that are way too rough to make it into the doc for now, so skim through if you think anything vital is missing because it may just be in development.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>1) There's a couple of reasons I didn't do this:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">ships are mostly ranged damage entities, they don't need a melee threat bubble or a way to have more people fit around them to hit them.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The way ships are built, it would make little sense to quadruple the area of a larger ship into a square, since ships get taller, longer and more heavily set in the water but rarely get <em>significantly </em>wider, especially once you hit warship size. Reflecting the growth in length of a ship by making it, say, two squares long and one wide would make it wildly clunky to calculate turns and movement. So I just made the square big enough that masically any sailing ship ever made would fit (200x200ft) and just said all ship occupy one square.</li> </ul><p>2) That's definitely a factor (a ship's turn rate, determined ny its control component(s). Smaller, nimbler ships will usually have a better turn rate, but it's still a case to case basis.</p><p></p><p>3) Yup</p><p></p><p>4) I know I certainly have to add this, but I wanted to detail ships as their own thing before getting in the nitty gritty of PCs affecting them with class abilities.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The officers described at the beginning are mostly a flavor thing for now. I have a Naval Feats section in mind, which will give characters access to additional or improved actions on board the ship, but even without those, all character can act by taking the actions described in the Ship Combat section. Activities during travel are still a ways off from being planned though.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>1) This is a bit too granular for my taste, since it would require wind strength to be an actual thing in combat (for now it's only mentioned for skill checks during travel). I handled the wind on a ship to ship basis because if a ship has more sail area it'll gain more benefit from the wind than a ship that has less (since the assumption is that the wind blows the same way for everyone).</p><p></p><p>2) That is for sure a part of the notes I put down when starting this project, but I still haven't gotten around to describing it. Probably one of the next things I'll add though.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Definitely considered this problem. It's understandable that players just thinking they'll meet and have a nice game of D&D will not want to learn a whole new system just to have the couple of sessions where they pretend to be pirates. However, I think if</p><p></p><p>1) You check in with them before doing the whole actual naval combat thing and know they're theoretically into it.</p><p>2) Run a few practice ship combats on their own, as if it were board game night rather than session night to get them used to the system.</p><p></p><p>You could pull it off.</p><p></p><p>Also, a thing to consider would be that they could encounter a stronger, faster, better commanded ship that kicks their ass (just like in M&C) and they need to actually learn the naval part of the game to be able to catch the guy and do what they like doing (though this might feel like punishment rather than incentive).</p><p></p><p>Also also, now that you make me think about it, once the full system is set, it wouldn't be too hard to make a D&D compatible board game out of it. You have premade characters with D&D ability scores and give them the abilities a good naval feat for their position would be (I still don't have naval feats, but they'll be a thing). If you can get them to play a session of that and they enjoy it, once their characters get a ship, the board game experience should translate pretty easily to the session (right?).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Interesting. I don't think I have the will to think of all the possible implications of applying class features to ships (and it might make it feel too D&D-y, which is probably the point, but would ruin the "we doing ship battles today" part of it for me). The spell empowerment isn't a bad idea either, I'll keep it in mind when writing the magic rules.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hit location effects make a lot of sense. I wanted to not deviate too much from the basic d&d framework though, to make it as compatible as I could.</p><p></p><p>Cannons do indeed have a damage table hidden somewhere in the "not ready for external eyes yet" doc.</p><p></p><p>Good catch on the crew, I'll need to tighten up my wording <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Voi_D_ragon, post: 8777540, member: 6855956"] [S]Well, this got posted before I even got through the first answer, so it'll be awhile before it's finished. Didn't know TAB posted -.-[/S] Ok all caught up, post is good to go. Alright, so I wanted to get to some of these yesterday but i couldn't remember my password from my phone and it was too late to fire up the old PC (Europe). I'm just going to make a super long post for everyone, so look for your quote in here if you get notified. Also, I'm going to outline some things I have planned that are way too rough to make it into the doc for now, so skim through if you think anything vital is missing because it may just be in development. 1) There's a couple of reasons I didn't do this: [LIST] [*]ships are mostly ranged damage entities, they don't need a melee threat bubble or a way to have more people fit around them to hit them. [*]The way ships are built, it would make little sense to quadruple the area of a larger ship into a square, since ships get taller, longer and more heavily set in the water but rarely get [I]significantly [/I]wider, especially once you hit warship size. Reflecting the growth in length of a ship by making it, say, two squares long and one wide would make it wildly clunky to calculate turns and movement. So I just made the square big enough that masically any sailing ship ever made would fit (200x200ft) and just said all ship occupy one square. [/LIST] 2) That's definitely a factor (a ship's turn rate, determined ny its control component(s). Smaller, nimbler ships will usually have a better turn rate, but it's still a case to case basis. 3) Yup 4) I know I certainly have to add this, but I wanted to detail ships as their own thing before getting in the nitty gritty of PCs affecting them with class abilities. The officers described at the beginning are mostly a flavor thing for now. I have a Naval Feats section in mind, which will give characters access to additional or improved actions on board the ship, but even without those, all character can act by taking the actions described in the Ship Combat section. Activities during travel are still a ways off from being planned though. 1) This is a bit too granular for my taste, since it would require wind strength to be an actual thing in combat (for now it's only mentioned for skill checks during travel). I handled the wind on a ship to ship basis because if a ship has more sail area it'll gain more benefit from the wind than a ship that has less (since the assumption is that the wind blows the same way for everyone). 2) That is for sure a part of the notes I put down when starting this project, but I still haven't gotten around to describing it. Probably one of the next things I'll add though. Definitely considered this problem. It's understandable that players just thinking they'll meet and have a nice game of D&D will not want to learn a whole new system just to have the couple of sessions where they pretend to be pirates. However, I think if 1) You check in with them before doing the whole actual naval combat thing and know they're theoretically into it. 2) Run a few practice ship combats on their own, as if it were board game night rather than session night to get them used to the system. You could pull it off. Also, a thing to consider would be that they could encounter a stronger, faster, better commanded ship that kicks their ass (just like in M&C) and they need to actually learn the naval part of the game to be able to catch the guy and do what they like doing (though this might feel like punishment rather than incentive). Also also, now that you make me think about it, once the full system is set, it wouldn't be too hard to make a D&D compatible board game out of it. You have premade characters with D&D ability scores and give them the abilities a good naval feat for their position would be (I still don't have naval feats, but they'll be a thing). If you can get them to play a session of that and they enjoy it, once their characters get a ship, the board game experience should translate pretty easily to the session (right?). Interesting. I don't think I have the will to think of all the possible implications of applying class features to ships (and it might make it feel too D&D-y, which is probably the point, but would ruin the "we doing ship battles today" part of it for me). The spell empowerment isn't a bad idea either, I'll keep it in mind when writing the magic rules. Hit location effects make a lot of sense. I wanted to not deviate too much from the basic d&d framework though, to make it as compatible as I could. Cannons do indeed have a damage table hidden somewhere in the "not ready for external eyes yet" doc. Good catch on the crew, I'll need to tighten up my wording :). [/QUOTE]
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I figured out why all 5e ship rules suck
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