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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6374442" data-attributes="member: 48965">I am still not seeing any ambiguity except for the ambiguity you are (purposefully??) introducing.  Let's read that sentence...First part: "You can't hide from a creature that can see you,"... seems simple enough You can't hide, as in performing the act of hiding from a creature that can see you.  Of course if you are already hidden from a creature it can't see you so we don't need to worry about the case of being hidden in this instance as being hidden implicitly implies you cannot be seen, otherwise you wouldn't be hidden would you?  Why would you assume it is referencing the action of already being hidden?  I seriously can't think of a situation where that interpretation would make sense... It doesn't say "you can't stay hidden..." which would then support your interpretation, it says you can't hide.Second part: ",and if you make noise (such as shouting a warning or knocking over a vase), you give away your position."... Again this seems pretty simple.  First we have and which is used to supply supplementary information.  So in addition to not being able to initially hide if someone can see you, you also can give away your position (regardless of being hidden or not), if you make noise thus you cannot hide or stay hidden if you make noise...The other thing is context, you're snatching sentences out of context and then complaining they are unclear... Well yeah, context is part of understanding the text....I don't know it just seems like you're trying to present these rules in the most convoluted way possible to prove they are hard to understand when they really aren't...  I would say if you actually read the preceding paragraph in the section you are quoting it becomes much more clear (context is important) as the only way you become visible to a creature once hidden is through your Dex (stealth) check being beaten by their Wis (perception) check. Now this is convoluted... what gap?  You do realize within that same section you are quoting from, passive perception is addressed (the chance someone notices you once you are hidden)...approaching a creature in combat is addressed and there is a section called... What Can You See that refers you to the section on vision and light which pretty much covers the difficulty of noticing someone depending on the conditions they are hiding in.Oh, you mean like the rules for whether a combatant notices another that was hidden and is approaching him?Here I disagree with @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=39815" target="_blank">occam</a> as the text does say a Wood Elf can attempt to hide even when he is only lightly obscured and specific supersedes general... now it does not say the Wood Elf is conferred the advantages of being in heavily obscured terrain... so I would allow someone observing him a perception check w/disadvantage to keep track of the elf while he is trying to hide... as opposed to applying the blinded condition as I would in heavily obscured terrain.</blockquote>

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