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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6375140" data-attributes="member: 48965">First let me understand this... you believe that a creature can only stay hidden in/with total concealment?  Let me first say, just looking at it from a logical perspective that makes no sense to me... We've already seen examples where it is not necessary to be heavily obscured to stay hidden. Hiding, except in special cases is another matter altogether.Perhaps my logic is informed by having the full rules in the PHB but I'll step you through it...1.One cannot hide from a creature that can see you... and most creatures (barring exceptions like Darkvision) can only see normally in bright light 2. Taking the above that means that there are 2 states of light where a character cannot see normally dim light and darkness, thus seeing someone would not be automatic in either situation since vision is impaired in these conditions.3.  Since darkness is a heavily obscured area it blocks vision entirely and imposes the blinded condition thus Perception checks relying on sight automatically fail... and when making a Perception check vs. Stealth in these conditions you are in fact relying on things like hearing, intuition, etc.4. Since one cannot see normally in dim light (again barring special abilities) it only stands to reason that there is a chance you won't be able to see (or hear) someone who is hidden (otherwise why give disadvantage or differentiate it at all).  In order to determine whether one is able to notice specific things a Perception check is necessary (and this is one of the two lighting conditions where sight is actually a factor in determining whether something is noticed or not).  Thus one can stay hidden in dim light if the creature trying to locate them isn't perceptive enough.This is also supported by the example given in the perception skill description where it cites "thugs hiding in the shadows of an alley" as something that requires a perception check to notice.   I would say no, not for the dim light.  If it's based purely on vision it's an auto-fail because the wall counts as heavily obscured terrain for these purposes and imposes the blind condition when it comes to the detection of something on the other side of it.  Now as a DM I would put disadvantage on the perception check for the NPC if you're character wasn't moving since that reduces the noise you are making and thus makes it harder for him to use his other senses to detect you... but this is getting into that territory where individual DM's will make their own rulings (and I like this aspect of the rules).Now of course once the wall is disintegrated that's a different story all together... If the NPC is then relying on sight to locate you he must make a perception check with disadvantage...   It's not.   Your original situation was that the wall had been disintegrated... Right?</blockquote>

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