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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 6375339" data-attributes="member: 58197">I agree with [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] on the stealth rules. As I've said several times in other threads, I think the rules introduce a tremendous amount of confusion by using the word "hidden" to mean "made a successful Stealth check." The rules are explicit that it is possible to be invisible but not hidden ("an invisible creature... can always try to hide"), which means that despite 5E's focus on natural language, the word "hidden" is not being used in a natural way. It's a technical rules term, and a poorly chosen one at that.Given this, I approach the stealth rules by mentally replacing all instances of "hidden" with "stealthy." When you do that, everything becomes a lot clearer, and it becomes obvious that Stealth is 95% about non-visual senses. By a strict reading, in fact, it's 100%*. If you can be seen, you can't become stealthy, period, end of story. Therefore, the Stealth check cannot possibly be about visual senses.Now to the question of whether there is a difference between when you can hide (become stealthy) and when you can be hidden (be stealthy): I say no, there is no difference. However, we already know that "hidden" and "hide" are being used in non-natural ways here, so I can't just appeal to natural language. Instead, I point to the following sentence:(Emphasis added.) This sentence uses "hiding" as an ongoing action, something that can be stopped. It is not the instantaneous act of crossing the threshold between the "non-hidden" and "hidden" states; rather, it is an action that causes you to be in the "hidden" state as long as you keep doing it. If you stop hiding, you're no longer hidden. Therefore, if something prevents you from hiding, you can't stay hidden.[size=-2]*The reason I consider it 95% is that I might call for a Stealth check to cover borderline cases between seen and unseen--e.g., you're trying to conceal yourself in heavy brush, which is on the edge between heavily and lightly obscured. However, nothing I can see in the written rules supports this. I consider it a logical extension of the rules, but it is technically a house rule.[/size]</blockquote>

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