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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6376682" data-attributes="member: 42582">Two things;First, does the NPC who walks around behind the wall that my rogue was hiding behind need to make a Perception check to notice my rogue? If the area in which the wall is located is shrouded in fog, is that check made with Disadvantage?Second, it's nonsense to say that &quot;you can apply my line of questioning to any edition of D&amp;D, or any RPG for that matter&quot;. My line of questioning has no analogue in 4e D&amp;D, nor in Marvel Heroic RP.The remains of a disintegrated wall are a pile of dust. That's why I chose that example: a rogue whose wall is disintegrated is in plain sight.What is &quot;situational&quot; or &quot;open-ended&quot; about &quot;You can't hide from a creature that can see you&quot;? That seems pretty categorical to me, not open-ended at all. And I'm not sure what counts as taking that clause too literally. The only non-literal interpretation of it is to ignore it, ie to allow that sometimes you can hide froma creature that can see you.I think the Stealth rules would be better written if they said this, rather than said categorical things like &quot;You can't hide from someone who can see you.&quot;No. The crux of the issue is that, if the rules are as occam has stated them just above, then the rulebook should say that. Like it does for the hermit background.Agreed. This is why I think the hermit rules are better than the stealth rules. They are upfront about this.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6376682, member: 42582"] Two things; First, does the NPC who walks around behind the wall that my rogue was hiding behind need to make a Perception check to notice my rogue? If the area in which the wall is located is shrouded in fog, is that check made with Disadvantage? Second, it's nonsense to say that "you can apply my line of questioning to any edition of D&D, or any RPG for that matter". My line of questioning has no analogue in 4e D&D, nor in Marvel Heroic RP. The remains of a disintegrated wall are a pile of dust. That's why I chose that example: a rogue whose wall is disintegrated is in plain sight. What is "situational" or "open-ended" about "You can't hide from a creature that can see you"? That seems pretty categorical to me, not open-ended at all. And I'm not sure what counts as taking that clause [I]too literally[/I]. The only non-literal interpretation of it is to ignore it, ie to allow that sometimes you [I]can[/I] hide froma creature that can see you. I think the Stealth rules would be better written if they said this, rather than said categorical things like "You can't hide from someone who can see you." No. The crux of the issue is that, if the rules are as occam has stated them just above, then the rulebook [I]should say that.[/I] Like it does for the hermit background. Agreed. This is why I think the hermit rules are better than the stealth rules. They are upfront about this. [/QUOTE]

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