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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kae'Yoss" data-source="post: 1317857" data-attributes="member: 4134">I haven't read the whole thread, so my points might have been made already. If so, I apologize and you can please consider this post as "what they said"What I have read are the old classics: Rolling For Diplomacy Is Rollplaying, and I Am DM I You Are Nothing.So using the diplomacy skill instead of talking is bad? You're absolutely right. The player should use his own social skills. But why stop there? Next time that elven archer (ranger 20) with dex 25 want to shoot a target 300 yards away (something he might very well accomplish with his attack bonus), give him a small plastic ball and tell him "See the red light on the TV over there? Hit it with this ball, if you can do that, your ranger hits." When he starts to whine something about dexterity score and BAB, tell him that this would be roll-playing, and that he has to show off his own dexterity.Sounds absurd? Of course it is! As absurd as forcing players to carry around cupboards in order to have their barbarian succeed on a strength-check. As absurd as forcing players to talk like an experienced diplomat instead of using Diplomacy.You think getting high cha and ranks in diplomacy to roll instead of speaking is powergaming, munchkinism or something like that?  Well, what about those dwarven fighters with Cha 6, zero ranks in diplomacy whose players talk as if they were the above-mentioned diplomat? IMO it is far worse to put dump stats in Int and Cha and invest not a single point in any Knowledge or social skill but running around talking with a golden tongue and knowing everything, including solutions to the most difficult puzzles. Sure, not talking in character, but talking like "I try to convince him with my bluff +200" is not exactly good form, but completely disregarding every skill with cha before it is as bad. The best solution, IMO, is to use any of the combinations that have been discussed here earlier. Remember that not only the clumsy or weak have a right to play agile thieves or powerful barbarians, the shy guys should also get the chance to play the master courtier.</blockquote>

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