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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 7136026" data-attributes="member: 6795602">Honestly I haven't looked much at the Bladesinger.  I'll look into it in more detail later with your class in mind.The valor bard is generally terrible at damage dealing with attacks or cantrips.  (They can become compotent archers at some point but that's about all).  Even so doing that forces them to give up far too much charisma(assuming point buy, rolled stats open more doors).  Basically it's best to think of the valor bard's 2 attacks as his way of getting cantrip level damage (maybe slightly higher than cantrip level damage) for most the game.  Charisma is just more important to a bard than INT is to a wizard.  Wizards have more options that don't rely heavily on high int than bards have that don't rely heavily on high charisma (yes one could make a wizard just as dependant on Intelligence as a Bard is on Charisma but you don't have to).  Basically a buff and blaster style wizard (blasty spells have a save for half feature which makes high int less important for those spells and buffs don't rely on int at all).  The point is that it's much harder to dump charisma or go lower charisma with bard.  They give up too much IMO.As such the valor bard is left being a much inferior melee combatant in most every way.  They are more MAD.  They lack a fighting style.  They get no good spell buffs till to late to have built your character around being a GISH.  Basically their extra attack becomes their cantrip scaling.Your Wizard-Warrior on the other hand, even if all he got additionally was extra attack would make a much superior warrior to a valor bard.  (Shield spells and AOE's to get through low levels).  Useful buffs to get through till level 5.  Then haste at level 5 and extra attack at level 6.  He will be one of the most damage character's at level 6 with extra attack and haste up.  Top that off with some shield spell reactions, the ability to go variant human and cast darkvision at level 3 and misty step etc just makes him soo much better at fighting than the valor bard.</blockquote>

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