Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5351781" data-attributes="member: 82106">You need LoE to the TARGET of a power. I just read through the RC tonight on this out of curiosity. An 'ancillary effect' that works on some other creature besides the target falls squarely through a hole in the rules. EVERY rule WRT to what you can or cannot effect specifically talks about a target, which is a tightly defined term. Thus an effect which affects a non-targeted creature HAS NO RULES about LoE or LoS or in fact no other default rules at all. The teleport rule, at least in the RC, states only that you need LoS to the destination. Presumably they didn't mention the creature being teleported on the assumption that it is covered under targeting rules, except in this case it isn't because it is not a target.Thus NO RULE covers this at all, except 'the user of the power must have LoS to the destination'. This is why I stated in my previous post that technically Iconik's interpretation is perfectly supportable by a narrow reading of RAW. I think it is NOT the intended reading, BUT the whole thing really isn't all that clear-cut.Consider splash effects as I did above. Those clearly would tell you that you really should have LoE to any affected but untargeted creatures. OTOH there are a SLEW of leader powers that have ancillary effects on allies that aren't the target. Some class features as well. SOME of them state things like 'that you can see', but a LOT of them don't. It really isn't clear that LoE or LoS or visibility in general SHOULD apply to those. I think once again this is a 4e gray area that you can't just rule one way or the other for all situations and get RAI in all of them.In other words I think the 'you must have LoE' argument is reasonable, but so is the other position that you don't.</blockquote>

Verification