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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Umbra" data-source="post: 1638871" data-attributes="member: 17086">Actually, the problem isn't the math (which is simple addition and subtraction), it's the rule complexity and knowing what applies to each character or NPC when and in what situation.  I agree that keeping track of it can bog the game right down when compared to earlier versions of DnD.  Add in feats and spells from non-core book sources = boggled brain.While running a game with 15th to 18th level PC's (first time we have reached so high) where the players all do their homework there is invariably some modifier we miss or miss apply during combat.[half tongue in cheek] Of course non-ENWorlders  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek!    :eek:"  data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" />  (= less committed / less knowledgable/ less  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ) newbies, casual gamers and the like have little hope in keeping up.My partner is about to join a 5th level game I play in for his first RPG experience.  He doesn't read much, won't spend hours pouring over the books tweaking his character and hasn't been playing for 20 years like some of the other gamers.  I suspect it will be a while before he gets the basics down, let alone some of the complexities, and I will probably be spending alot of my time going over his character sheet with him.Which brings us back to a rules lite game for newbies which may be solution for those who hate 3.x complexity...a whole 'nuther topic.</blockquote>

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