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<blockquote data-quote="ashockney" data-source="post: 1643678" data-attributes="member: 1363">Wizardru, thank you for staying current with the topic, and keeping the thread going.&nbsp; I really appreciate it.&nbsp; I think in the long run, these discussion can really open the eyes, ears, and doors to some of the best changes we'll see implemented in the next evolution of our game.Your above example is a PERFECT scenario description that I was trying to highlight, about complexity and mathmatical hurdles.&nbsp; It looks at the other side of the equation, and adds even MORE issues to address.&nbsp; See my earlier reference of the 14th level fighter/rogue, and all the rolls she had to make each round to determine hits/damage.&nbsp; The number of combinations and modifiers are very, very high.&nbsp; Now, let's throw &quot;defense&quot; into the mix as well.&nbsp; They were fighting mostly giants, so there wasn't much of the above, but the closer you get to 20th (and into Epic) the more EVERY villian in EVERY encounter has to look like the above defensive array.&nbsp; And as a DM, you have to track it ALL.&nbsp; As a player, you've now EXPONENTIALLY increased the already CUMBERSOME number of roles I must make to determine hits and damage.MATH SCHOLARS, WHERE ARE YOU?&nbsp; I would like someone to build this formula, and look for ways to simplify it!&nbsp; Which variables aren't adding much to the equation?I totally agree.&nbsp; And did your players find this fun?&nbsp; Mine got some disgruntled (above 30th level) with everyone being immune to EVERYTHING and the battle becoming a way to peel the onion on EVERY villian, and once you broke through a defense, ripping it to shreds.&nbsp; They felt like their powers weren't effective most of the time.&nbsp; Frutstrating.&nbsp; Your thoughts/experiences?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ashockney, post: 1643678, member: 1363"] Wizardru, thank you for staying current with the topic, and keeping the thread going. I really appreciate it. I think in the long run, these discussion can really open the eyes, ears, and doors to some of the best changes we'll see implemented in the next evolution of our game. Your above example is a PERFECT scenario description that I was trying to highlight, about complexity and mathmatical hurdles. It looks at the other side of the equation, and adds even MORE issues to address. See my earlier reference of the 14th level fighter/rogue, and all the rolls she had to make each round to determine hits/damage. The number of combinations and modifiers are very, very high. Now, let's throw "defense" into the mix as well. They were fighting mostly giants, so there wasn't much of the above, but the closer you get to 20th (and into Epic) the more EVERY villian in EVERY encounter has to look like the above defensive array. And as a DM, you have to track it ALL. As a player, you've now EXPONENTIALLY increased the already CUMBERSOME number of roles I must make to determine hits and damage. MATH SCHOLARS, WHERE ARE YOU? I would like someone to build this formula, and look for ways to simplify it! Which variables aren't adding much to the equation? I totally agree. And did your players find this fun? Mine got some disgruntled (above 30th level) with everyone being immune to EVERYTHING and the battle becoming a way to peel the onion on EVERY villian, and once you broke through a defense, ripping it to shreds. They felt like their powers weren't effective most of the time. Frutstrating. Your thoughts/experiences? [/QUOTE]

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