I hate mysteries

[MerricB]

One of the more common adventure types that I encountered during my brief time with the RPGA was the investigative adventure - the mystery.

Recently, I've been playing the Star Wars RPG "Dawn of Defiance" series of adventures, and guess what we're finding? Mysteries. Not every adventure, but enough of them.

And I really, really hate them. Especially in Star Wars. But also in D&D.

I don't mind secrets. No, what I mind is the players not knowing what they're supposed to be doing. I really hate it when every lead you follow turns out to be a dead end or a red herring. Or when the NPC you're talking to has the information you need, but will only tell you if you ask exactly the right questions.

If you look at "A New Hope", there's no investigation going on at all. At every point, the goal of the main characters is really clear. There are revelations aplenty, though. There are secrets that the main characters learn, but they're not something they need to tease out. Hey, they're thrown in their faces. At a slow spot, when Luke and Han are on the Death Star and all they're doing is just waiting around for Obi-Wan to disable the tractor beam, all of a sudden the droids realise the Princess is aboard and the boys have a goal again. Actually getting the princess (and out again) is trickier than they expect, but the action is always driving on.

In most mystery adventures I've played in, we've spent most of our time just sitting around wondering what to do next. Someone's disappeared on the planet? OK, we go there. We ask about her. No-one's seen her. Where does that leave us? Frustrated, that's where.

Now, there may be people out there that are great at playing in investigative adventures, but the players I play with aren't them. Although I'm not quite sure if the adventures aren't causing the problems in the first place - what is a well written investigative adventure?

What do you think?

Cheers!

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

I hate 'em too, on a tactical level. Meaning - I don't like mysteries that are the main drive of the adventure. I call these the "Colonel Mustard in the Parlor with a Candlestick" type of games.

I do like strategic mysteries. Meaning - I do like mysteries that overshadow the entire campaign (or longer adventure arc). I call these the "Holy hell, Darth Vader is my dad" type of games.

The latter type of mysteries still allow those "Wow!" moments when all becomes clear, and yet doesn't reduce - IMO - D&D to a bunch of investigations and interrogations akin to a detective novel. You solve those strategic mysteries by kicking butt and taking names, one module at a time.

I suspect, however, one's feeling is based upon the type of group they game with. Some groups enjoy that sort of thing - and Eberron, in particular, seemed to accentuate investigative adventures. Other groups, not so much.

WP

 

[Fallen Seraph]

For myself as a DM I do a scatter-plot for mystery games. I set up lots of initial clues/methods of investigation and then numerous paths that can be taken from there, and those branch off into other ones, etc. So it becomes more and more spread out, after a peak moment in the mystery-plot it begins to shrink down again as it leads to the end of the mystery and the truth.

I will also add in the cases where the certain path leads to a dead-end. Not a complete dead-end but simply a different investigation that branches off from that one. You always see in crime shows/mystery shows sometimes 2-3 other corresponding investigations that branch off thanks to the initial one.

Now, mystery is one of my favourite kinds of games to play so I invest lots in running it well. I usually have some sort of force pushing the PCs/plotline to keep going so they don't stall out, there is always a need to go, go, go, go. So even a investigative and diplomacy ridden plotline has tension and excitement.

 

[Shroomy]

Mystery adventures are definitely hard to pull off, but I don't think that they are impossible to write. Just look at a plethora of CoC adventures, or in the D&D vein, the 3.5e Eberron adventure "Murder in Oakbridge." Personally, I think that a successful mystery adventure need the following components: the mystery can't be too byzantine, it should be logical, there needs to be a lot of potential clues (so PCs don't have to find every last bit), NPCs should be compelling and interesting (the PCs will be interacting with them a lot and interesting NPCs encourage this interaction) and the writers should come up with ways for GMs to quickly compensate if the PCs are stumped.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Merric, what you're describing isn't a problem with mysteries.

It's a problem with badly designed or badly run mysteries.

If the players get stuck or frustrated, it's the DM's job to nudge things along, and when designing the mystery, it's the DM's job to make sure there are multiple routes to take to the solution, with multiple opportunities to find the right clues. But when you have a DM willing and able to do that, mysteries can be the best sort of adventure.

There is, IMO, almost nothing more fun, either to run or play, than a well-done mystery game. (And that includes both, to use WP's terms, tactical and strategic mysteries. My best and most well-received campaigns have involved plenty of both.)

 

[MerricB]

Mystery adventures are definitely hard to pull off, but I don't think that they are impossible to write. Just look at a plethora of CoC adventures, or in the D&D vein, the 3.5e Eberron adventure "Murder in Oakbridge." Personally, I think that a successful mystery adventure need the following components: the mystery can't be too byzantine, it should be logical, there needs to be a lot of potential clues (so PCs don't have to find every last bit), NPCs should be compelling and interesting (the PCs will be interacting with them a lot and interesting NPCs encourage this interaction) and the writers should come up with ways for GMs to quickly compensate if the PCs are stumped.

Yeah, I definitely agree with that.

Where did "Murder in Oakbridge" appear? It sounds familiar, but it's been a while since I looked through my Eberron stuff.

Cheers!

 

[ExploderWizard]

Mystery adventures can be great but a good mystery adventure is harder to write than a good mystery story.

L2 The Assassins Knot is a cool D&D mystery adventure. There is defined goal and a timeline that must be met to prevent disaster.

Certain types of players are better to run mystery games for than others. If a group of players are the type to sit back and wait for hooks to land in thier mouths followed by breadcrumb trails to follow then they may dislike mysteries.

A DM who is not forthcoming with clues, especially if they are running a group like the one descibed, can sink a mystery adventure in a heatbeat.

Mysteries require proactive players and a DM who can spot stagnation early and fix it before it ever becomes a problem.

With a DM and playing group that really click, a mystery adventure can be really good.

 

[Shroomy]

Yeah, I definitely agree with that.

Where did "Murder in Oakbridge" appear? It sounds familiar, but it's been a while since I looked through my Eberron stuff.

Cheers!

It was in Dungeon 129.

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

Wow. Assassin's Knot. I forgot about that one, and I absolutely loved it. What was the name of that town - I used it in about three different campaigns as a base of ops.

Love,
Tonight on the WP

 

[MerricB]

There is, IMO, almost nothing more fun, either to run or play, than a well-done mystery game. (And that includes both, to use WP's terms, tactical and strategic mysteries. My best and most well-received campaigns have involved plenty of both.)

I'm really glad to hear that. I wish I could play in one of those games one time.

I mean, two of the early games I played were James Bond and CoC, so it's not like I'm completely averse to mysteries. I guess I've just been seeing a lot of bad ones recently. And ones that are out-of-genre. (The Star Wars movies, which are my touchstone for what Star Wars is, include one investigative plot - and that's only part of Episode 2. Having a bunch of mystery adventures breaks me out of feeling like I'm playing Star Wars).

In Thunderspire Labyrinth, there's a skill challenge that the PCs must pass to learn what the next bit of the adventure is about. That sort of design infuriates me - when I ran it yesterday, I basically just told the PCs what they needed to do within the framework of the encounter, and also gave them motivation at the same time (you need to do this to find what you're looking for...) Too little information can really sink an adventure, regardless of its type.

Cheers!