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<blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4581551" data-attributes="member: 40961">I don't think you would actually enjoy a game that worked the way you're describing.&nbsp; Imagine it.&nbsp;Scene: A game of 3.5.&nbsp;DM: &quot;You come across the caravan you journied to meet, but disaster has struck.&nbsp; The caravan cars are torched and burned, their contents looted, their passengers killed.&nbsp; Nothing remains but vulture picked bones and ashes.&nbsp; You can see odd footprints in the sand, but they are unfamiliar to you, and you don't know where they lead.&quot;&nbsp;Player: &quot;I will have vengeance on whoever did this to our allies!&nbsp; I make a Survival check to track the footprints.&quot;&nbsp; *rolls dice*&nbsp;DM: &quot;You can't track without the Tracking feat.&nbsp; I mean, you could, but you'd have to use Spot or Search, and you automatically fail if the DC is above a certain amount.&nbsp; Which it is.&quot;&nbsp;Player: &quot;Oh.&nbsp; Um, I look for other clues that would help me figure out where the raiders went.&quot;&nbsp;DM: &quot;You don't find any.&quot;&nbsp;Player: &quot;I haven't even rolled!&quot;&nbsp;DM: &quot;I know.&nbsp; But I can't just give you other clues that let you completely bypass the Tracking feat.&nbsp; If I did, you wouldn't be adequately rewarded for your feat choice.&quot;&nbsp;Player: &quot;But I didn't take that feat.&quot;&nbsp;DM: &quot;But you could have.&nbsp; And if you did, you should get to use it.&nbsp; If you can just use some other skill to accomplish exactly the same thing, then the Tracking feat was pointless.&nbsp; So, to get through this obstacle, you have to have the Tracking feat.&quot;&nbsp;Player: &quot;But I don't.&quot;&nbsp;DM: &quot;Right.&quot;&nbsp;Player: &quot;So... other clues?&quot;&nbsp;DM: &quot;None.&nbsp; This was a tracking challenge.&nbsp; You failed because you're not trained in tracking.&nbsp; Giving you other clues would make your decision not to train in tracking meaningless.&nbsp; So there aren't any.&quot;&nbsp;Player: &quot;You're saying that this adventure is totally and completely stalled.&quot;&nbsp;DM: &quot;Yes.&nbsp; For philosophical reasons, I have completely denied you any and all means of obtaining revenge against the creatures who did this to your allies.&nbsp; You might as well go back to the city and pursue some other plot hook against some other enemy.&quot;&nbsp;Player: &quot;This adventure blows.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cadfan, post: 4581551, member: 40961"] I don't think you would actually enjoy a game that worked the way you're describing. Imagine it. Scene: A game of 3.5. DM: "You come across the caravan you journied to meet, but disaster has struck. The caravan cars are torched and burned, their contents looted, their passengers killed. Nothing remains but vulture picked bones and ashes. You can see odd footprints in the sand, but they are unfamiliar to you, and you don't know where they lead." Player: "I will have vengeance on whoever did this to our allies! I make a Survival check to track the footprints." *rolls dice* DM: "You can't track without the Tracking feat. I mean, you could, but you'd have to use Spot or Search, and you automatically fail if the DC is above a certain amount. Which it is." Player: "Oh. Um, I look for other clues that would help me figure out where the raiders went." DM: "You don't find any." Player: "I haven't even rolled!" DM: "I know. But I can't just give you other clues that let you completely bypass the Tracking feat. If I did, you wouldn't be adequately rewarded for your feat choice." Player: "But I didn't take that feat." DM: "But you could have. And if you did, you should get to use it. If you can just use some other skill to accomplish exactly the same thing, then the Tracking feat was pointless. So, to get through this obstacle, you have to have the Tracking feat." Player: "But I don't." DM: "Right." Player: "So... other clues?" DM: "None. This was a tracking challenge. You failed because you're not trained in tracking. Giving you other clues would make your decision not to train in tracking meaningless. So there aren't any." Player: "You're saying that this adventure is totally and completely stalled." DM: "Yes. For philosophical reasons, I have completely denied you any and all means of obtaining revenge against the creatures who did this to your allies. You might as well go back to the city and pursue some other plot hook against some other enemy." Player: "This adventure blows." [/QUOTE]

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