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<blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4581760" data-attributes="member: 40961">In that case, you agree with the posts you've been disagreeing with.&nbsp;The PCs in a mystery always get a clue.&nbsp; They never fail to get a clue because of a low skill roll.&nbsp; If they fail a skill roll that would have gotten them a clue, they find the clue in some other manner.&nbsp;Look, this really boils down to a basic, fundamental issue of DMing, and for that matter, of this forum:&nbsp; The PCs are supposed to win.&nbsp; But the PCs aren't supposed to know that they're supposed to win.&nbsp; Or, at the least, they're supposed to be able to suspend their disbelief, and pretend that they don't know that they're supposed to win.&nbsp; Saying &quot;The pcs always get the clue no matter the outcome of the skill checks&quot; openly admits that the PCs are supposed to win.&nbsp; Hearing this stated out loud drives some people nuts.&nbsp; When they hear someone say this sort of thing, they write lengthy posts decrying it.&nbsp; Sometimes they're polite, like you've been, and sometimes they're completely jerks about it and start ranting about how REAL roleplayers are hardcore enough to risk failure, and how kids these days are all soft, and need to walk uphill to school both ways in the snow, etc, etc, etc.&nbsp; And if you talk to them for a while, eventually it becomes clear that they really do game exactly the way that everyone else games.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cadfan, post: 4581760, member: 40961"] In that case, you agree with the posts you've been disagreeing with. The PCs in a mystery always get a clue. They never fail to get a clue because of a low skill roll. If they fail a skill roll that would have gotten them a clue, they find the clue in some other manner. Look, this really boils down to a basic, fundamental issue of DMing, and for that matter, of this forum: The PCs are supposed to win. But the PCs aren't supposed to know that they're supposed to win. Or, at the least, they're supposed to be able to suspend their disbelief, and pretend that they don't know that they're supposed to win. Saying "The pcs always get the clue no matter the outcome of the skill checks" openly admits that the PCs are supposed to win. Hearing this stated out loud drives some people [I]nuts[/I]. When they hear someone say this sort of thing, they write lengthy posts decrying it. Sometimes they're polite, like you've been, and sometimes they're completely jerks about it and start ranting about how REAL roleplayers are hardcore enough to risk failure, and how kids these days are all soft, and need to walk uphill to school both ways in the snow, etc, etc, etc. And if you talk to them for a while, eventually it becomes clear that they really do game exactly the way that everyone else games. [/QUOTE]

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