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<blockquote data-quote="Uller" data-source="post: 80004" data-attributes="member: 413">Re: Re: Re: Solars are coolNo.&nbsp; I'm saying you guys seem to think the the intention of the CR system is to make it so you don't have to think about it.&nbsp;&nbsp; You imply that the only way you'd be happy with the CR system is if all CRs assigned to all creatures, characters and challenges were perfect for all a parties at all times and the DM could just plug in the monsters/challenges and award XP from the table everytime, no muss, no fuss... The fact is, that's impossible.&nbsp; &nbsp; The idea of the CR system is not to give you some perfect system for guaging challenges and awarding XP.&nbsp;&nbsp; It is intended to be a rough guide not a perfect measure.&nbsp; Are some of they methods of determining CR &quot;broken&quot;?&nbsp; You bet.&nbsp; Are some of the CRs for the monsters off?&nbsp; Surely. No way, no how is a 7th level NPC fighter a CR 7.&nbsp; However, 4 7th level NPCs of varied PC classes would indeed be, IMO, an EL 11 encounter and present a serious challenge to a 7th level party,&nbsp; It would force an 11th level expend some spells and magic items...about the same as 4 hill giants(also EL 11).&nbsp;&nbsp; The CR calculations at low levels work very well, IMO.&nbsp; An Ogre/Brb3 is definately CR 4 or 5(I ran one against my party when they were fifth level and it was an appropriate challenge, IMO).&nbsp;&nbsp; Obviously at high levels they break down.&nbsp; Big deal...do you really think that adding a single level of Rogue to a Great Wyrm Red Dragon would impact it's CR _at all_?&nbsp; Are you kidding? Would you have been happier if they wrote a 10 page algorithm for calculating CRs?...So yes...if it makes you happy: The CR calculations are &quot;broken&quot; in that the DM can't just use them exactly as written once you get past 5th level or so...by that time, even a newbie DM should have a clue about how the game works and the capabilities of his party.&nbsp; He must think about the CRs...IMO, this doesn't warrant the notion that the whole system should be thrown out.&nbsp; I have yet to see a system for guaging challenges and awarding XP in any game that didn't require some thought on the DM's part.&nbsp; In fact, in 1e and OD&amp;D, there was NO system for guaging challenges, IIRC.&nbsp;&nbsp; All you had to go on was HD and your own common sense.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Uller, post: 80004, member: 413"] [b]Re: Re: Re: Solars are cool[/b] No. I'm saying you guys seem to think the the intention of the CR system is to make it so you don't have to think about it. You imply that the only way you'd be happy with the CR system is if all CRs assigned to all creatures, characters and challenges were perfect for all a parties at all times and the DM could just plug in the monsters/challenges and award XP from the table everytime, no muss, no fuss... The fact is, that's impossible. The idea of the CR system is not to give you some perfect system for guaging challenges and awarding XP. It is intended to be a rough guide not a perfect measure. Are some of they methods of determining CR "broken"? You bet. Are some of the CRs for the monsters off? Surely. No way, no how is a 7th level NPC fighter a CR 7. However, 4 7th level NPCs of varied PC classes would indeed be, IMO, an EL 11 encounter and present a serious challenge to a 7th level party, It would force an 11th level expend some spells and magic items...about the same as 4 hill giants(also EL 11). The CR calculations at low levels work very well, IMO. An Ogre/Brb3 is definately CR 4 or 5(I ran one against my party when they were fifth level and it was an appropriate challenge, IMO). Obviously at high levels they break down. Big deal...do you really think that adding a single level of Rogue to a Great Wyrm Red Dragon would impact it's CR _at all_? Are you kidding? Would you have been happier if they wrote a 10 page algorithm for calculating CRs?... So yes...if it makes you happy: The CR calculations are "broken" in that the DM can't just use them exactly as written once you get past 5th level or so...by that time, even a newbie DM should have a clue about how the game works and the capabilities of his party. He must think about the CRs... IMO, this doesn't warrant the notion that the whole system should be thrown out. I have yet to see a system for guaging challenges and awarding XP in any game that didn't require some thought on the DM's part. In fact, in 1e and OD&D, there was NO system for guaging challenges, IIRC. All you had to go on was HD and your own common sense. [/QUOTE]

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