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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hawk Diesel" data-source="post: 9833849" data-attributes="member: 59848">This right here seems to represent the struggle I am having with your argument. You are conflating things that are not necessarily the same. I never said things have to be the same or can't do the same. I am saying that things need to be compared to what already exists, and cannot be considered in a vacuum. You're right, rogues don't suddenly get 10d6 sneak attack, and shadow monks and cartographer artificer's don't just start with varying degrees of teleportation. They come online only after multiple levels of class investment.A cartographer's teleport is unlimited in number of uses, but is way worse than misty step. Both can be achieved by level 3. But their scopes are still very different. It is also clear from the existing design and mechanics that designers treat teleportation differently than they treat other forms of movement. If you want a teleport that you can use at will like a cantrip, without at least 6 levels of investment (like with the shadow monk), you aren't going to be able to achieve that. And even with those 6 levels, there are still limitations (needing to be in dim light).Right, but when you say two different features, does that mean a feat tree? Does that mean a subclass archetype? If it's feats, then that means you can't get the second feature until level 8 (level 4 if the second feat isn't level locked and you can start with the feat at level 1). If it's a subclass, that means the second feature comes online at the earliest level 6 (like with the shadow monk). And it requires a focused concept and dedicated execution. If you want to multiclass, you inherently delay access to these features.You say things like "two separate features." But you can't just pick and choose when you get these features without using a totally different system than D&D.I disagree. As I see it, some features scale linearly, and others scale quadratically. I would argue that an at-will, resourceless, 30ft teleport is way more useful and impactful than a consistent +1d10 fire damage (the most resisted damage type in the game). Also, please show me one character build that gets a consistent, at will, no circumstance, no resource cost +1d6 damage or more to your attacks that comes online before level 6.Sure, rogues get +1d6 sneak attack at level one. But that is the whole identity of the rogue, and even the +1d6 sneak attack has conditions (must have advantage or target within 5ft of ally, cannot have disadvantage, can only be applied once per turn). If you want to make a whole new base class where teleportation is their identity, then you have more design space to play with. Otherwise, you have to accept you need to plan and wait for a desirable form of teleportation to come online around level 5 at the earliest.</blockquote>

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