Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Enchanted Trinkets Complete--a hardcover book containing over 500 magic items for your D&D games!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 798355" data-attributes="member: 3146">It's a nice idea but unfortunately it doesn't work. The problem in the situation is not that the PCs or monsters don't recognize their triggers but rather that their triggers should all occur at EXACTLY the same moment. The wizard is readying his fireball for when he sees the orcs and ogre. The orcs are readying their javalins for when they see their foes. Unless you want to invent some kind of opposed spot check mechanic to substitute for what initiative is supposed to do, the DM is either going to have to cheat ("The orcs hurl their javalins at--[Player interrupts: Hey, you said orcs. If I see them my readied action goes off]--sorry, too late. I already said the orcs hurled their javalins, your action can go off after that.") by asserting that he always goes first because the players don't get a description of the room before he describes the orcs ACTING, describe inactive orcs (DM "You see some orcs. They [Player interrupts: Hey my readied action goes off] OK. Roll damage for the fireball) and thereby always give initiative to the players, or come up with a non-arbitrary mechanic for who goes first. The last solution, of course, is the best as it fosters cooperative gameplay and polite listening at the table instead of encouraging and rewarding interruption and spotlight hogging. However, it essentially amounts to inventing a new initiative roll.This is, of course, very easy. As is punishing no-foolhardy play. "Seeing you the bad guys' readied actions go off. Time seems to stop for a moment as the enemy wizard is a blur of motion then it all hits. All of your magic is dispelled by a mordenkeinen's disjunction, and you're then hit with a Horrid Wilting and a Meteor Swarm. Into this orgy of destruction, the enemy cleric partial charges you and slams a harm spell (holding the charge) into you, following it up with a quickened inflict light wounds. The enemy archer then kills the rest of you. Wasn't this fun guys?" The DM can "punish" foolhardy play if he wishes. However, by using mechanics that reward it, he ensures that NPCs (who have nothing to lose by being foolhardy since the PCs really are out to kill them) are able to reap the benefits while PCs must either deny themselves the effective tactics available to NPCs or consign themselves to be screwed over by a DM looking to "punish" their foolhardy play.Either way puts the DM in the position of using NPC tactics to "reward" or "punish" players for using readied actions or not using readied actions. Unless the players are telepathic or have an inhumanly stable DM (who never gets frustrated that the players are having too easy a time (b/c he doesn't use readied actions which could make the battles tougher (b/c the PCs don't) or b/c the PCs use foolhardily readied actions in an attempt to outsmart his trigger setting) this won't work for long. A much better solution is just to use initiative.Mea Culpa. However, you still have the interesting situation that, all things being equal (no readied actions on any side), the cleric is able to do less in the split seconds after the door is kicked open than anyone else which doesn't make any sense unless you divide your vision of time into rounds and turns. Normal reasoning would lead to the conclusion that the cleric has exactly as much time as anyone else to react to the situation--after all nobody could do anything until after he had opened the door.Except you've already set the precedent of allowing initiative to begin whenever the players or you want it to rather than when two opposing sides are aware of each other and capable of interacting. It's very easy to extend that precendent.No it doesn't. DMG 61 "If both sides become aware of the other but they cannot interact immediately, track time in rounds, giving both sides the same amount of time in full rounds, until the two sides can begin to interact." Further down, there is an example "Lidda drinks a potion. Todek and Mialee move up to the door. At the same time, the orcs move into position and one uses a ring of invisibility ot hide. . . The fighter opens the door and the DM calls for an initiative check from all. The third round begins, this time with the order of actions being important (and dicated by the initiative check results).The rules allow players to make preparations as a team but not to ready actions outside of initiative order--when both sides are incapable of interacting with each other.The suggestion on p 63 that "some turns of events could make it worthwhile to reroll initiative. . . ." (Middle of the left column) further supports this interpretation of initiative. As do the nature of initiative and readied actions. Initiative is supposed to determine how quickly a character responds to a turn of events. Readied actions are supposed to represent waiting for the right moment to do something in combat. By selecting to ready an action, a character is moving lower in the initiative order and risking giving up his action in order to be able to take an action at a particular moment.The interpretation of readied actions that you are supporting enables them to take the place of initiative in determining which characters react most quickly to a new situation and, rather than reacting more slowly and risking losing an action, to react more quickly--potentially gaining an action.In short, it's an abuse of the rules which, in the long run (and for reasons described above and in the previous post) will not be healthy for the game.</blockquote>

Verification