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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5305361" data-attributes="member: 78116">Not really, it resolves the problem straight away and easily, there is no actual obligation to make a saving throw in this case. The encounter is designed poorly, but the result doesn't have to be equally as poor in this situation.Succeeding at a few 50/50 saving throws while being beat senseless by monsters is not "doing very well".This fails to make any sense whatsoever considering they easily dominated the PC in question and then just used her as a trivial punching bag. Why on earth would 5 (presumably one is removed from play dominating her) run from a single target they have almost complete control over and surround utterly? Noting that the incubus, as mentioned is one of the more hardcore late heroic monsters as well. I mean they can absolutely shred a lightly armed striker like this to pieces in the right situation.We have absolutely different definitions of "doing well". My definition is not "hanging on for dear life in a 1 vs. 4 fight and then getting the tar beaten out of you while dominated" myself.Face four horrible daemons that can dominate her and use her as a puppet, that have the immediate goal of just throwing her off the tower (note make sure to read post #4, which is from the OP detailing that in fact, she was absolutely screwed and not "winning" by any definition).Or.Face a 100ft drop and being relatively hardcore have a chance of potentially surviving it, as opposed to zero when they knock me firmly into negative bloodied and toss me off.I mean, both options are horrible but one is far worse than the other. Especially when these creatures are almost certainly going to easily chain dominate her to prevent her doing anything to them. I also think by that point the monsters had "won" and being thrown off would have been far more thematic than standing ground and being beaten utterly senseless. But again, we have incredibly different working definitions of what constitutes "doing very well" I must say <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> I do completely see your point though, but this was an encounter that was really stacked against the PCs in both creature types and tactically (with the ledges). In the end when the creatures have technically killed 3/4 party members (by dropping them off the roof) the last PC is not in a winning position - especially when that PC is easily chain dominated so the other creatures can just continue whacking on her. Plus they get a not insignificant damage bonus against PCs they have dominated before too.Edit:They are level 10 and the Incubus is a level 9 Lurker. So it's not quite as expensive as 5 level 10 monsters, but then again sometimes level isn't a complete indication of how brutal a monster will be in play. The Incubus has a lot of stuff going for him.Edit2: I just want to pull this out and fully detail the sequence of events here:This is the sequence of events you claim is doing very well:Round 1: 2 vs. 1. PC is clawedPC is dominatedMakes save against the fallMakes save against the dominateRound 2:PC is dominatedAnother incubus knocks the other PC off - now 3 vs. 1Bull rush - SavedMakes save against the fallSaves against the dominateRound 3: Fourth Incubus JoinsPC is dominatedTwo claws (dropped unconscious)Bull rushed - fails saveDies from fall damage.In no where in any of that is the sentence "doing very well" applicable. Well except to saving throws! But sadly saving throws aren't convincing monsters that you're scary, especially when they keep jerking control back and this is actually the precise situation the creatures want. The more she saves against the dominate and gets dominated by a NEW incubus the worse she is actually doing. The best option was to run (albeit, not an option due to being dominated) or voluntarily fall down while she had the most HP available - rather than getting beat down. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Note this doesn't change the completely valid point we've already concluded that the encounter wasn't great to begin with, but her death wasn't guaranteed if they used it as a method of retreating. Never surrender and never running from a fight you are clearly losing - regardless of how well/poorly designed it was isn't a good idea either <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

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