Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
"I know the spell to solve the problem!"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Mort" data-source="post: 5727445" data-attributes="member: 762"><p>For 3e at least, this completely ignores the easy availability of Scrolls, wands etc. (Scribe scroll is <strong>free</strong> to any wizard and low level utility scrolls, the worst offenders, are cheap and relatively quick to make).</p><p></p><p>Some specifics:</p><p></p><p>i]knock[/i] lets you pick a lock with 100% success and do it as quickly as a rogue can! And went through 2 locks per spell to boot. The wizard needs only a few scrolls (cheap) or for extra oomph a wand (I'm not sure knock was needed 50 times in 20 levels of adventure!)</p><p></p><p><em>wizard lock</em> is worse in that a rogue <strong>cannot</strong> pick a wizard locked door. It either has to be <em>knocked</em> or battered down (although <em>wizard lock<em> makes that harder too. Further, it is <strong>permanent</strong> unless dispelled so very few resources wasted.</em></em></p><p><em><em></em></em></p><p><em><em>Both of these spells take a rogue and royally hose his niche (pathfinder at least made these spells arcana checks as opposed to auto success so there is that).</em></em></p><p><em><em></em></em></p><p><em><em></em></em></p><p><em><em>There are other offenders too of course: Comprehend languages and tongues, fly to mitigate/invalidate most terrain (which again are easily available on scrolls so no resource management issue) etc. </em></em></p><p><em><em></em></em></p><p><em><em>4e at least made most of these spells into rituals, giving them both a monetary and time cost (with the time cost being significant). Sure the mage can open the locked door, <strong>but</strong> it will cost 50 gold, <strong>take 10 minutes</strong> AND cost a healing surge (of which mages get the least of, I believe). The rogue on the other hand can do it in seconds, at no cost.</em></em></p><p><em><em></em></em></p><p><em><em></em></em></p><p><em><em>To answer the OP question:</em></em></p><p><em><em></em></em></p><p><em><em>It is a bug when it is too easy, steps on the toes of other classes, and in general all but replaces any skill use or creative thinking outside of "what spell do we use next" (which actually is not creative at all)</em></em></p><p><em><em></em></em></p><p><em><em>It is a feature when using the spell requires a trade off and a loss of efffectiveness (the wizard yelling ooga booga at a door for 10 minutes is a fine tradeoff to the effectiveness of the rogue) but can get the job done in a pinch.</em></em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mort, post: 5727445, member: 762"] For 3e at least, this completely ignores the easy availability of Scrolls, wands etc. (Scribe scroll is [b]free[/b] to any wizard and low level utility scrolls, the worst offenders, are cheap and relatively quick to make). Some specifics: i]knock[/i] lets you pick a lock with 100% success and do it as quickly as a rogue can! And went through 2 locks per spell to boot. The wizard needs only a few scrolls (cheap) or for extra oomph a wand (I'm not sure knock was needed 50 times in 20 levels of adventure!) [i]wizard lock[/i] is worse in that a rogue [b]cannot[/b] pick a wizard locked door. It either has to be [i]knocked[/i] or battered down (although [i]wizard lock[i] makes that harder too. Further, it is [b]permanent[/b] unless dispelled so very few resources wasted. Both of these spells take a rogue and royally hose his niche (pathfinder at least made these spells arcana checks as opposed to auto success so there is that). There are other offenders too of course: Comprehend languages and tongues, fly to mitigate/invalidate most terrain (which again are easily available on scrolls so no resource management issue) etc. 4e at least made most of these spells into rituals, giving them both a monetary and time cost (with the time cost being significant). Sure the mage can open the locked door, [b]but[/b] it will cost 50 gold, [b]take 10 minutes[/b] AND cost a healing surge (of which mages get the least of, I believe). The rogue on the other hand can do it in seconds, at no cost. To answer the OP question: It is a bug when it is too easy, steps on the toes of other classes, and in general all but replaces any skill use or creative thinking outside of "what spell do we use next" (which actually is not creative at all) It is a feature when using the spell requires a trade off and a loss of efffectiveness (the wizard yelling ooga booga at a door for 10 minutes is a fine tradeoff to the effectiveness of the rogue) but can get the job done in a pinch.[/i][/i] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
"I know the spell to solve the problem!"
Top