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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 5729101" data-attributes="member: 5834">reDifferent ways for different characters do things. I don't see a problem with it. People vastly over-rate the wizard's versatility.Let's take some scenarios:Locked door:1. Rogue removes trap, picks locks, and stealths through door: Very effective. No resources wasted.2. Wizard: Wizard uses detect magic and Spellcraft to check for magical traps. Perception for nonmagical. If possible uses dispel magic to eliminate trap otherwise probably summoned creature. Then he must use knock to unlock door. If he wants to go through without being seen, he must use invisibility. Then he still might be heard unless he casts a silence or has Stealth. A wizard to get through a locked door spends 2 to 4 spells where as the rogue spends only time. Wizards have other options at higher level, but they still waste spell slots to use them and the rogue doesn't.3. Fighter bashes the door open. Takes whatever damage the trap has to give. Marches on unless it's a real bad trap. If it's a real bad trap, most likely the wizard is screwed too. 4. Cleric: Use find traps spell or summons creature to set off trap. Bashes through door.Rogue still best at getting through locked and trapped door.Getting past guards:1. Rogue: Uses Disguise, Bluff, Diplomacy, and Stealth. None of it detects as magic or can be seen through with true seeing. His skill versus theirs. Only resources spent is time.2. Wizard: Multitude of spells. All that detect as magic. So must have a means to disguise magic and hope they don't have a way to get past it for his stuff to work. Charm Person works on one guard. Mass Charm might work if all guards are close. Now wizard must worry about not only his own magic being seen through, but the guard's charmed condition as well. Now the guard will have magic detected on him and the wizard must disguise the magic on the guard as well. He has to waste massive resources to pull off what a rogue can pull off alone with skill.3. Fighter: He's bashing his way in unless he has skills. Luckily he's good at bashig his way in and can usually kill tons of mook guards. But he'll have problems with the bigger baddies.4. Cleric: Depends on domains. Definitely not the best for infiltration.Rogue still the best for infiltration into settings with average humanoid guards.Generally, a party is going to work together to get this type of thing done. So the wizard will use some magic, the fighter will be ready to bash, the cleric will be ready to support, and the rogue will be point as usual and deal with talking elements.I have never much understood this assumption wizard's can pull spells out of thin air to get any job done. Usually isn't the case. Takes time, money, and careful planning for a wizard to do the same thing a skill monkey can do on the fly. A wizard will be much happier spending his spell slots on spells other than those aimed at doing the skill monkey's job.</blockquote>

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