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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 6769301" data-attributes="member: 92511">Ah. I see. Yeah, the capslock thing doesn't "read" well on the receiving end. No offense taken, not to worry. I've certainly had more offensive exchanges here. hahaha. But, good to know you weren't intending to yell.Now...Expertise: 3rd, increase at 10th.Countercharm: 6th. No increase.Magical Secrets: is, in fact, 10th, increases at 14th AND 18th.Archetype features come in at...3rd (2 features), 6th, and 14th. Ya got me here, dead to rights, at 6th. The bard receives two separate "full" features granted in the same level.  So, apparently, I'm mistaken and there is "precedent." But I would not consider it strong enough to warrant emulation/reproduction 4 times within a single class.In a way, there are also, "two features" at 10th level...though not the way I was intending...So, I think I see what it is you're talking about and we're kind of missing each other's point...I'll go through the rest just to confirm/make sure.Extra Attacks: 5th, increase at 11th and 20th.Indomitable: 9th, increase at 13th and 17th.Archetype features come in at 3rd, 7th, 10th, 15th, and 18th...so there's no overlap here at all. Not sure why this is in the list.Evasion: 7th level. No increase.Purity of Body: 10th, no increase.Diamond Soul: 14th, no increase.Archetype features at 3rd, 6th, 11th,`17th.Again, no overlap.AoProtection: 6th, increase at 18th.AoCourage: 10th, increase at 18th.Improved Divine Smite: 11th. No increase.Cleansing Touch: 14th. No increase.Archetype features at 3rd (2), 7th (with 18th level increase), 15th, 20th. No overlap.[Interesting aside: though completely irrelevant to note here, the Vengeance Oath does NOT receive an archetype feature increase at 18th with their 7th level feature, while the Devotion and Ancients paladins do. Neither here nor there since they have two base class features boosting at 18th level anyway. Just odd/interesting there's this miniscule difference in abilities between subclasses.]Land Stride: 8th. No increase.Vanish: 14th. No increase.Archetype features at 3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th. Not seeing the overlap here either.Expertise: 1st, increase at 6th.Uncanny Dodge: 5th. No increase.Evasion: 7th, no increase.Reliable Talent: 11th, no increase.Blindsense: 14th, no increase.Slippery Mind: 15th, no increase.Archetype features at 3rd (2), 9th, 13th, and 17th. Again, not the overlap that you were using.So, there are a couple of examples where a given feature improves at a higher level and the character receives an addition new feature at that same level. We've seen there is 1 example (Bard, 6th level), where a class receives two individual new features at the same level. It is this last bit that I am having a problem with/think should be adjusted and where I don't think that was clear. Classes (for the vast majority) do not receive two separate new features at levels over 3rd. If something in improving/increasing then you can probably get away with introducing a new feature along with it...once or twice.Note, also, the Ability Score Imrpovement, for all classes, is 4th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 16th, and 19th. The bard and monk, both have features presenting at 10th. So if you're going to use Ability Score Improvement as one of a level's features and give them another one, then make it at 10th.For your proposed ranger, if you wanted to double up on ONE advancement level with 1 new feature and 1 older feature that is improving, I would consider that in line with the other classes and acceptable. So...since I"m not sure if that makes things more clear or infinitely more confusing, here's what I would do/I'm talking about, fill in as you like:Base Ranger Class Feature Progression:1st: 2 features.2nd: 2 features.3rd: Archetype that gives 2 features.4th: Ability Score Improvement (ASI)5th: 1 feature6th: one 1st level feature increase7th: Archetype feature8th: ASI increase9th: one 2nd level feature increase10th: ASI increase + new base feature11th: Archetype feature or former archetype feature increase12th: ASI increase13th:14th: additional 1st level feature increase15th: Archetype feature16th: ASI increase17th: 18th: 1 base feature or former base feature increase19th: ASI increase20th: capstone feature (seems necessary, but I really wouldn't have any issue with a former feature [base or archetype] increasing to something super cool instead. As noted multiple times, the existing PHB ranger capstone is fairly blah.)That gives you, 6 or 7 levels of base class features, 6 levels of ASI (mandatory, as with all other classes), 5 Archetype features (2 at 3rd level +3 more, 1 per level), 4 levels of increasing base class features (1, almost certainly, is more preferred terrains for Natural Explorer), 1 or 2 possible levels of increasing archetype features (if you have something that it makes sense to "scale" as they level.)</blockquote>

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