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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jasamcarl" data-source="post: 1190600" data-attributes="member: 1251">Ok, but I think in many ways that is even worse. So now if I wish to play a fighter I have to coordinate with the other players in order the excercise these options you claim many people like and I'm likely to be outshined or rendered worthless in atleast half the games. Not to mention that you seem to be assuming a group where the players talk amongst themselves to see what type of game they want, but not with the dm. If everyone decided what type of game they wanted to play, then the dm could structure the game beforehand to deal with that while maintaining class balance in 3e, as oppossed to having to work with the selection of classes the party provides, which limits ingame (as oppossed to metagame options), which is what you are suggesting.You know, 3e can do exactly what you seem to want. All the players have to do is ignore any level limit. Then you can have four 20th level character to present to your surprised dm and he can put himself into an Epic mindset. Or perhaps all 4th level fighters. You can even slow or stop xp handouts so the players can remain in this sweetspot and just shift their equipment around for customization. This would do everything you say earlier editions did, but also ensure that the integrity of the level system is still there...</blockquote>