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Message: <blockquote data-quote="thecasualoblivion" data-source="post: 4571247" data-attributes="member: 59096">Three of the four roles have existed in every edition of D&D(and for that matter, most RPG systems):1. Defender=Tank--Aside from the minis skirmish aspects you describe, the Defenders role is to engage the enemy. The job of engaging the enemy does not require the miniatures skirmish stuff. Engaging the enemy is accomplished by being able to survive being engaged back while being dangerous enough that disengaging from you is a less attractive choice than beating you down. The monsters themselves mean to engage the PCs, preferably the squishy ones first, and what you accomplish as a Defender is making sure things go your way. This role exists independantly of the skirmish aspect of 4E, and the main difference 4E adds is that it is the first edition of D&D to truly give the Defender the tools to do this right.2. Leader=Healer--Its the Leader's job to keep everybody alive. This is the easiest one to understand, as you've stated.3. Controller=Raw Power--Even detached from 4E's take on it, the Controller role has always been about applying as much brute force to the situation at hand as is possible, either through control or blasting. 3E's Wizard, while able to do a lot of what the Striker of 4E does and can even play games to summon Defenders and buff the party like crazy with things like Haste, was always at his/her best when asserting control, and it was a unique ability that nobody did better. Even good old AD&D Fireball spamming Wizards were Controllers first, though more often of the blasting variety.Another role tended to exist in previous editions, and that was the Skill Monkey. The thing is, the Skill Monkey really lacked focus compared to the other three. He didn't really have a real role in combat, of which half or more of the game is usually based around, and sucking at half or more of the game is not a compelling concept for most players. The versatility of magic also tended to trump skills, so a lot of the time the skill monkey wasn't even the best at what he was supposed to be good at. 4E replaced the Skill Monkey with the Striker, or in other words, the Glass Cannon combined with the Hit and Run specialist. While 4E uses a lot of tactical movement and positioning, both of these concepts were mainstays of previous editions, of which the best example would be the 3E Gish, without those 4E features.Sexiness of roles:I've noticed a bit of this, though it has a paradoxical effect on things. People tend to find the Striker role the sexiest, but I've noticed that its the most difficult role to play well. Aside from the boringly effective Archer Ranger, Strikers just aren't as effective in the hands of inferior players. Having a real choice of Leaders/Healers combined with being able to attack and heal at the same time removes most of the "somebody has to play a Cleric" issue. People get bullied into playing Defenders, but a lot of people now find them sexy since they actually work right this time. I've been seeing the most problem with the Wizard/Controller, but I think that is more due to Wizards being the sole Controller than anything having to do with the role/class itself.Minis/Skirmish roles.They aren't. 4E uses a minis/skirmish style, and the roles define themselves within those terms, but the roles exist outside of minis/skirmish. Defenders engage, Leaders heal and buff, Controllers dominate, and Strikers hit hard and run away. Minis and skirmish rules are not necessary for any of that.</blockquote>

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